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Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

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Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#11

Post by ghaff »

tjoff wrote: post #10
aasasd wrote: post #2

You'd think that with the DIY freedom people would be making Kinesis Advantages and slapping touchpads in the middle. But no, somehow it's the same old flat boards for arms that grow out of the chest and fingers that extend out of the hand instead of rotating on joints; with the typewriters' staggered layout that makes no sense on electronic keyboards. Only now they're a couple centimeters higher so the wrists are ev…

There are tons and tons of ortholinear diy-boards floating around. The problem with curved boards is manufacturing (for diy) and the pcb. But 3D printing solved the first problem and they are mostly soldered with wires rather than experimenting with pcbs. So there are a few curved boards out there as well. Such as https://github.com/abstracthat/dactyl-manuform/blob/master/R... As for touchpads they kind of suck as an…

I was a big trackball fan for many years (mostly Logitech models). Although I admit I switched away, in part because there was at least a period when I didn't like any of the models available, but also because Apple finally did a trackpad I actively liked rather than barely tolerated.

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#12

Post by TurboHaskal »

aasasd wrote: post #2

You'd think that with the DIY freedom people would be making Kinesis Advantages and slapping touchpads in the middle. But no, somehow it's the same old flat boards for arms that grow out of the chest and fingers that extend out of the hand instead of rotating on joints; with the typewriters' staggered layout that makes no sense on electronic keyboards. Only now they're a couple centimeters higher so the wrists are ev…

It’s not only the form factor. They’re also obsessed with high resistance switches (going as high as 65 and even 80g activation point) which is sure way to develop RSI.

You should aim to go as low as possible but still avoiding accidental activation when resting your fingers on the keyboard. For most people, that means between 30 and 35g.

Realforce makes a bunch of them but they’re not held in high regard by the mechanical keyboard community because they don’t feel tactile enough. Let alone the fact that they dare using rubber in the keyboards.

Fortunately they seem to be busier building them from scratch and posting the results on Reddit than actually typing.

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#13

Post by lincolnq »

zerr wrote: post #6
aasasd wrote: post #2

You'd think that with the DIY freedom people would be making Kinesis Advantages and slapping touchpads in the middle. But no, somehow it's the same old flat boards for arms that grow out of the chest and fingers that extend out of the hand instead of rotating on joints; with the typewriters' staggered layout that makes no sense on electronic keyboards. Only now they're a couple centimeters higher so the wrists are ev…

Kinesis looks good for data entry and such keyboard-only activities, but otherwise, when one hand is using a mouse, I don't think it is comfortable. Any experiences?

I have used a kinesis for 12+ years as my main keyboard.

I'm not fully sure what you are asking -- I would guess you're referring to the fact that it's harder than usual to type with one hand and mouse with the other, because you have to reach across to the other side of the keyboard?

If that's what you're asking, I agree -- but I consider it a good thing :). I found that the kinesis helped me focus on touch-typing more and relying more on keyboard shortcuts to navigate; it's a bit of a learning curve but ultimately worth it for ergonomics and speed.

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#14

Post by lincolnq »

isoprophlex wrote: post #7
kajecounterhack wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No touchpad but: https://shop.keyboard.io

That looks incredible: build quality, ergonomics, there's even an Any key But the edge of maple body looks a bit high. Do you own one? How comfortable is it to rest your wrists on it? (I prefer the shallowest possible keyboards myself)

I have one of these too. I ended up not using it because I preferred my long-standing kinesis. It was quite comfortable though; my main complaint was with the switches -- I didn't like the Matias switches it ships with (I prefer Cherry Browns). I also felt that I wanted more thumb-keys, but that's obviously a preference I inherited from my longtime Kinesis usage :).

If the design appeals to you I do still recommend it despite not preferring it myself. The build quality was great. I don't have any comments in particular about the height, not something I noticed.

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#15

Post by coldtea »

zerr wrote: post #6
aasasd wrote: post #2

You'd think that with the DIY freedom people would be making Kinesis Advantages and slapping touchpads in the middle. But no, somehow it's the same old flat boards for arms that grow out of the chest and fingers that extend out of the hand instead of rotating on joints; with the typewriters' staggered layout that makes no sense on electronic keyboards. Only now they're a couple centimeters higher so the wrists are ev…

Kinesis looks good for data entry and such keyboard-only activities, but otherwise, when one hand is using a mouse, I don't think it is comfortable. Any experiences?

>but otherwise, when one hand is using a mouse, I don't think it is comfortable

Parent did say "and slapping touchpads in the middle".

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#16

Post by melling »

aasasd wrote: post #2

You'd think that with the DIY freedom people would be making Kinesis Advantages and slapping touchpads in the middle. But no, somehow it's the same old flat boards for arms that grow out of the chest and fingers that extend out of the hand instead of rotating on joints; with the typewriters' staggered layout that makes no sense on electronic keyboards. Only now they're a couple centimeters higher so the wrists are ev…

It’s disappointing that there’s so little innovation. Surely, we must have learned more about ergonomics in the past half century?

The DataHand was a new interesting “keyboard” design in the 1990’s, about 25 years ago.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DataHand

Btw, Xahlee has a great article on keyboard switches:

http://xahlee.info/kbd/keyboard_switch_mechanisms.html

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#17

Post by DanBC »

melling wrote: post #16
aasasd wrote: post #2

You'd think that with the DIY freedom people would be making Kinesis Advantages and slapping touchpads in the middle. But no, somehow it's the same old flat boards for arms that grow out of the chest and fingers that extend out of the hand instead of rotating on joints; with the typewriters' staggered layout that makes no sense on electronic keyboards. Only now they're a couple centimeters higher so the wrists are ev…

It’s disappointing that there’s so little innovation. Surely, we must have learned more about ergonomics in the past half century? The DataHand was a new interesting “keyboard” design in the 1990’s, about 25 years ago. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DataHand Btw, Xahlee has a great article on keyboard switches: http://xahlee.info/kbd/keyboard_switch_mechanisms.html

There's some innovation but there are also aggressive patent holders who are holding things back.

For example, Matius was stopping one-handed keyboards for a while.

http://blog.monstuff.com/archives/000021.html

There were things like the Frogpad or the HandyKey Twiddler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmzYovAMHE4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciQVBNHrKKA

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#18

Post by solatic »

aasasd wrote: post #2

You'd think that with the DIY freedom people would be making Kinesis Advantages and slapping touchpads in the middle. But no, somehow it's the same old flat boards for arms that grow out of the chest and fingers that extend out of the hand instead of rotating on joints; with the typewriters' staggered layout that makes no sense on electronic keyboards. Only now they're a couple centimeters higher so the wrists are ev…

No touchpad, but: https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#19

Post by EL_Loco »

aasasd wrote: post #2

You'd think that with the DIY freedom people would be making Kinesis Advantages and slapping touchpads in the middle. But no, somehow it's the same old flat boards for arms that grow out of the chest and fingers that extend out of the hand instead of rotating on joints; with the typewriters' staggered layout that makes no sense on electronic keyboards. Only now they're a couple centimeters higher so the wrists are ev…

The split keyboards and ortholinear keys aren't that much better. They're mostly ideas about what would be better ergonomically, but they haven't been as thoroughly thought out as they seem. For the split keyboards, look at the whole of human history and tell me, out of the hundreds of thousands of years of tool use all the way back to the stone age, how many of those tasks were done with your arms set straight out in front of you, hands 12 to 14 inches apart. I bet most of human fine movement tasks were done with the hands close together (sewing for example). The position with your hands extended and 12 inches apart actually puts your elbows in a quite uncomfortable position, and I wouldn't be surprised if that in itself would lead to some injuries in that area (elbow). As for the ortholinear key designs, that's not very ergonomic either. Make a fist with your hands. Now open your fingers. Do they open in a parallel line pattern like the orthogonal keyboards? No, they don't. They spread out, in a star-like pattern. If the keys were laid out similar to that pattern then, yes, I might concede a benefit there. But these two regular complaints about traditional keyboards while hailing split and orthogonal keybords as well thought out ergonomic solutions seem more like a fad to me. By the way, I don't think the traditional typewriter-like keyboards are great, far from it. I do think, though, that our hands are pretty resilient, but not infinitely resilient. Too much repetitive work, insufficient rest, personal biomechanics, can all eventually lead to injuries, on all these types of keyboards.

PS-> Who came up with calling it 'ortholinear'?

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#20

Post by oposa »

tjoff wrote: post #10
aasasd wrote: post #2

You'd think that with the DIY freedom people would be making Kinesis Advantages and slapping touchpads in the middle. But no, somehow it's the same old flat boards for arms that grow out of the chest and fingers that extend out of the hand instead of rotating on joints; with the typewriters' staggered layout that makes no sense on electronic keyboards. Only now they're a couple centimeters higher so the wrists are ev…

There are tons and tons of ortholinear diy-boards floating around. The problem with curved boards is manufacturing (for diy) and the pcb. But 3D printing solved the first problem and they are mostly soldered with wires rather than experimenting with pcbs. So there are a few curved boards out there as well. Such as https://github.com/abstracthat/dactyl-manuform/blob/master/R... As for touchpads they kind of suck as an…

> But 3D printing solved the first problem and they are mostly soldered with wires rather than experimenting with pcbs.

It doesn't really. Modern diy culture is ultimately about publishing. That is what puts you on somewhat equal footing with a large entity. What we mostly have with 3d printing is a do-it-for-yourself culture. That is why every institution will have an exclusive maker space, where you will get reprimanded if you use too much machine time. Why people dump things on github without documentation for their resume. And why the hacker news thread on the raspberry pi is about what people are using rather than what they have created.

A keyboard is a very basic object. It is almost like the hello world of hardware. Despite this it is very challenging to produce and publish one [0][1], or something like one [2]. But these stories mostly fall of deaf ears as this important part of diy culture has become marginalized.

[0] https://blog.keyboard.io/post/181333242149/december-2018-a-s... [1] https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/blog/ [2] http://www.tlalexander.com/business/

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