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The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

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Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#11

Post by mirimir »

_ph_ wrote: post #6
keymone wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valuation of what does make sense though? Other than A=A, all valuations are artificial.

Most valuations make sense as they are tied to the intrinsic value of things. A potatoe will feed you for a while. The value can vary - a potatoe farmer won't be hungry, so the value is to learn a living, a hungry person will value a potatoe very high. The price at each step in the chain between the farmer and the hungry person is determined by a lot of factors - distance and the scarcity vs. need at each point. Same…

You -- and lots of pesky Bitcoin speculators -- are missing the point. Bitcoin is currency. If it weren't for speculation, Bitcoin exchange rates with state-based currencies would be relatively stable. There's some deflation by design, but not enough to matter, unless you hoard.

Exchange rate volatility is problematic. My solution is mainly to have more Bitcoin than I'd ever use, unless its value crashed. That works for me because I accumulated most of it years ago, and I'm too paranoid to cash out.

Otherwise, I'd need to distribute among multiple resources that were relatively stable, or didn't move together.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#12

Post by H8crilA »

keymone wrote: post #5
H8crilA wrote: post #2

Yeah, yeah, Bitcoin valuation makes no sense. But it is a beautiful realisation of the Cyberpunk dreams of freedom.

Valuation of what does make sense though? Other than A=A, all valuations are artificial.

The closest "normal" thing to Bitcoin is commodities, since it's a non-performing asset. It's also deflationary since its total supply is fixed (somewhat like gold, of which not much more can be mined at reasonable prices). But it does not behave like any other commodity - it's much more volatile. It may start to calm down at some point.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#13

Post by d3v »

_ph_ wrote: post #6
keymone wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valuation of what does make sense though? Other than A=A, all valuations are artificial.

Most valuations make sense as they are tied to the intrinsic value of things. A potatoe will feed you for a while. The value can vary - a potatoe farmer won't be hungry, so the value is to learn a living, a hungry person will value a potatoe very high. The price at each step in the chain between the farmer and the hungry person is determined by a lot of factors - distance and the scarcity vs. need at each point. Same…

I would argue that BTC does have intrinsic value. The cost of investment and electricity are a sizable portion the market value.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#14

Post by H8crilA »

d3v wrote: post #13
_ph_ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most valuations make sense as they are tied to the intrinsic value of things. A potatoe will feed you for a while. The value can vary - a potatoe farmer won't be hungry, so the value is to learn a living, a hungry person will value a potatoe very high. The price at each step in the chain between the farmer and the hungry person is determined by a lot of factors - distance and the scarcity vs. need at each point. Same…

I would argue that BTC does have intrinsic value. The cost of investment and electricity are a sizable portion the market value.

You've confused intrinsic value of X with the cost of building X. Let me illustrate with an example.

A 1000 tonnes mountain of cow poo has near zero intrinsic value (perhaps even negative because it's a biohazard; people and government(s) are gonna get pissed and tell you to clean it up). That does not mean it didn't cost anything to create it, it was probably somewhat expensive to set up.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#15

Post by simplecomplex »

_ph_ wrote: post #6
keymone wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valuation of what does make sense though? Other than A=A, all valuations are artificial.

Most valuations make sense as they are tied to the intrinsic value of things. A potatoe will feed you for a while. The value can vary - a potatoe farmer won't be hungry, so the value is to learn a living, a hungry person will value a potatoe very high. The price at each step in the chain between the farmer and the hungry person is determined by a lot of factors - distance and the scarcity vs. need at each point. Same…

Valuations are not tied to intrinsic value... whatever that means.

“Value” is measured by what someone paid. Nothing more, nothing less. If I buy an apple from you for $5, that means both of us valued the apple at $5. The end.

To understand how meaningless the notion of intrinsic value is, ask yourself what the intrinsic value of water is? Drinking it? Bathing with it? Swimming in it? Cooking with it? Watering a garden with it? Washing a car with it?

Different people value water for different uses at different times for different amounts... there is no dollar value intrinsic to the water itself.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#16

Post by keymone »

_ph_ wrote: post #6
keymone wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valuation of what does make sense though? Other than A=A, all valuations are artificial.

Most valuations make sense as they are tied to the intrinsic value of things. A potatoe will feed you for a while. The value can vary - a potatoe farmer won't be hungry, so the value is to learn a living, a hungry person will value a potatoe very high. The price at each step in the chain between the farmer and the hungry person is determined by a lot of factors - distance and the scarcity vs. need at each point. Same…

> valuations make sense as they are tied to the intrinsic value of things

do you seriously not see the circular nature of your argument?

there is no "intrinsic value", there is only price at which a buyer meets a seller.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#17

Post by keymone »

H8crilA wrote: post #12
keymone wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valuation of what does make sense though? Other than A=A, all valuations are artificial.

The closest "normal" thing to Bitcoin is commodities, since it's a non-performing asset. It's also deflationary since its total supply is fixed (somewhat like gold, of which not much more can be mined at reasonable prices). But it does not behave like any other commodity - it's much more volatile. It may start to calm down at some point.

sure, my point was that "value" is artificial concept in itself. if there was no intelligent life - what in the universe would have "value"?

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#18

Post by _ph_ »

mirimir wrote: post #11
_ph_ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most valuations make sense as they are tied to the intrinsic value of things. A potatoe will feed you for a while. The value can vary - a potatoe farmer won't be hungry, so the value is to learn a living, a hungry person will value a potatoe very high. The price at each step in the chain between the farmer and the hungry person is determined by a lot of factors - distance and the scarcity vs. need at each point. Same…

You -- and lots of pesky Bitcoin speculators -- are missing the point. Bitcoin is currency. If it weren't for speculation, Bitcoin exchange rates with state-based currencies would be relatively stable. There's some deflation by design, but not enough to matter, unless you hoard. Exchange rate volatility is problematic. My solution is mainly to have more Bitcoin than I'd ever use, unless its value crashed. That works…

I think you misunderstood me. I am making the point that Bitcoin has basically no value. Its only value comes from the fact that currently enough people think it has a value. Like the million dollar homepage. Once the novelty has worn off, it could drop to 0 value.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#19

Post by _ph_ »

ignaloidas wrote: post #9
_ph_ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most valuations make sense as they are tied to the intrinsic value of things. A potatoe will feed you for a while. The value can vary - a potatoe farmer won't be hungry, so the value is to learn a living, a hungry person will value a potatoe very high. The price at each step in the chain between the farmer and the hungry person is determined by a lot of factors - distance and the scarcity vs. need at each point. Same…

You can't eat a dollar too. Intrinsic value of a dollar is smaller than a piece of paper, as it's not even that good for taking notes. It's valuation is the same: based on artificial demand.

The point of the dollar is, that it is backed by the United States of America. By the government the Federal Reserver Bank as the front line of setting and defending the value of the dollar. And by the whole US industry, which is trading their goods in dollars. That is the reason why modern currencies are generally valued vs. the gross domestic product of countries.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#20

Post by _ph_ »

tobiaswk wrote: post #10
_ph_ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most valuations make sense as they are tied to the intrinsic value of things. A potatoe will feed you for a while. The value can vary - a potatoe farmer won't be hungry, so the value is to learn a living, a hungry person will value a potatoe very high. The price at each step in the chain between the farmer and the hungry person is determined by a lot of factors - distance and the scarcity vs. need at each point. Same…

Couldn't the same be said about the US dollar? In fact there's no limit on that one. With the fractional reserve banking in place as todays standard the Federal Reserve just print more notes when needed to bail the banks. The whole system is based on trust. Trust does not scale well.

It is based on trust but also on the gross domestic product. If you want an iPhone (Tesla, corn, beef), you have to pay for it in dollars eventually.
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