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Cloudflare Time Services

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Re: Cloudflare Time Services

#11

Post by ac29 »

mobilemidget wrote: post #5

“For many applications, accurate network time isn’t essential: it suffices to be within 10 seconds of real time” I can’t imagine any application where the more accurate isn’t preferred. And 10 secs seems like quite a bit imho

"within 10 seconds of real time, but security is paramount"

You cut off the important bit. Roughtime servers sign their responses, so you can be sure you aren't getting a malicious time response (or if you do, you can penalize that server).

Per google [0]: "With only two servers, the client can end up with proof that something is wrong, but no idea what the correct time is. But with half a dozen or more independent servers, the client will end up with chain of proof of any server's misbehaviour, signed by several others, and (presumably) enough accurate replies to establish what the correct time is."

[0] https://roughtime.googlesource.com/roughtime

Re: Cloudflare Time Services

#13

Post by SEJeff »

I think it would be super interesting if they started offering IEEE 1588 v2 aka Precision Time Protocol, but it would be much harder to offer compared to ntp. What they're almost certainly doing here is just running a cable to the roof where they have a GPS antenna and then run it into their datacenters into a time appliance (less likely) or a GPS pci card in one of their servers (more likely) that they then send out to those who want access.

Re: Cloudflare Time Services

#15

Post by privateSFacct »

maxclark wrote: post #12

So frustrated that Cloudflare didn't just add resources/support the existing NTP Pool. Hard to even pretend their motives are altruistic at this point.

Disgusting that supposed "hackers" and experts on hackernews advocate for single point of failures in the internet infrastructure.

The internet is supposed to be distributed. If the NTP pool admins go nuts, have a fight etc, I'm glad there is an alternative. You can generally specify multiple sources, this would be a new source.

And it's always the BS "they're evil" argument - when the posters contribute nothing themselves to progress.

Frustrating indeed.

Re: Cloudflare Time Services

#18

Post by giancarlostoro »

diggan wrote: post #3
redm wrote: post #2

It seems to me that CloudFlare should just sponsor servers for inclusion in the long-standing global NTP pools. https://www.ntppool.org/en/

pool.ntp.org is a open source project (under Apache License) with a open group of contributors (volunteers). Basically the opposite of what Cloudflare is and stands for. Sponsoring servers in pool.ntp.org wouldn't support Cloudflare's goal(s).

I don't think they were implying it would support Cloudflares goals, but it would be nice to see big companies helping to fund public services, especially when many companies profit from open source tech.

Re: Cloudflare Time Services

#20

Post by ixf »

SEJeff wrote: post #13

I think it would be super interesting if they started offering IEEE 1588 v2 aka Precision Time Protocol, but it would be much harder to offer compared to ntp. What they're almost certainly doing here is just running a cable to the roof where they have a GPS antenna and then run it into their datacenters into a time appliance (less likely) or a GPS pci card in one of their servers (more likely) that they then send out…

You really can't do PTP over the internet, at least not meaningfully. Anyone who needs PTP is going to have their own grandmasters, reference sources, etc - and then a distribution network.

Most telecoms applications use an ePRTC source which tends to be implemented as a GPS/GLONASS/Galileo redundant frequency source, plus a local rubidium source or cesium reference. High-end telecoms applications use a hydrogen maser.

You can't stuff that over an unmanaged network and get the performance you need. Hardware needs to support it hop-to-hop.

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