Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mankind's Inner Ant

newstatesman.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 21 posts

Re: Mankind's Inner Ant

#11

Post by adrianN »

b_tterc_p wrote: post #8
Jun8 wrote: post #3

"The second implication is that there is no hope for a universal human society. “The notion of cosmopolitanism, the idea that the people of the world will come to feel a primary connection to the human race, is a pipe dream,” Moffett says." One of the questions I ask to new-found friends to get to know them better is: "How do you feel about the Borg? If there was such a central system would you agree to be hooked up?…

I would be down for ghost in the shell merging with select individuals. But the borg feels like... just dying pointlessly. It’s like you’re assuming that you’re joining a greater purpose simply because there’s more people in it than you yourself. It’s up there for least compelling ideologies.

But by joining the collective you don't die, you mind becomes part of the hive mind. It's not gone, it still has a (minuscule) influence on the behavior of the whole swarm.

Re: Mankind's Inner Ant

#12

Post by memeplex »

spookybones wrote: post #10
ALittleLight wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an interesting question. Personally I feel it depends if there's a trial period and easy separation. If your sales pitch is "Try it and it's so awesome you'll want to keep doing it" that's a lot more compelling (assuming non-addictive) than "resistance is futile".

What a dupe. Once you try the hive mind trial, you will automatically believe what the collective believes, that YES, IT IS AWESOME.

This made me laugh

Re: Mankind's Inner Ant

#13

Post by devoply »

erobbins wrote: post #9
cairo_x wrote: post #4

"Like it or not, we need the continued existence of others, who may be seen as revolting, barbaric or just alien, to know who we are." What a crock. People become barbaric when their own personal situation and environment has become barbaric. Drought and poverty are the leading causes for people to become barbaric--not the lack of anything to compare oneself to. And if it's not as extreme as that--that he's implying…

His point is that the external threat of barbarians or whatever is what held together civilizations like Rome. They had an external threat to rally together against. Here in the US the period after 9/11 was very similar, or after Pearl Harbor, etc etc.

America invents a boogie man to rally behind. There is no real boogie man. Hell go see Regan's speech where he's talking about ralling against alien threat rather than fighting the Soviet Union.

Re: Mankind's Inner Ant

#14

Post by devoply »

Jun8 wrote: post #3

"The second implication is that there is no hope for a universal human society. “The notion of cosmopolitanism, the idea that the people of the world will come to feel a primary connection to the human race, is a pipe dream,” Moffett says." One of the questions I ask to new-found friends to get to know them better is: "How do you feel about the Borg? If there was such a central system would you agree to be hooked up?…

Moffett is wrong. If we can have 1-2 billion people rally behind a single religion we can have a cosmopolitan society. The question is how do we divide up things so people feel that they are getting their fair share... without destroying the planet.

Re: Mankind's Inner Ant

#15

Post by crocal »

erobbins wrote: post #9
cairo_x wrote: post #4

"Like it or not, we need the continued existence of others, who may be seen as revolting, barbaric or just alien, to know who we are." What a crock. People become barbaric when their own personal situation and environment has become barbaric. Drought and poverty are the leading causes for people to become barbaric--not the lack of anything to compare oneself to. And if it's not as extreme as that--that he's implying…

His point is that the external threat of barbarians or whatever is what held together civilizations like Rome. They had an external threat to rally together against. Here in the US the period after 9/11 was very similar, or after Pearl Harbor, etc etc.

I don’t think so. Politicians use this trick but that does not mean it is « what held together civilizations ». Intelligent leadership, rule of the law, public wealth and opportunity for growth beat barbarians any time.

Re: Mankind's Inner Ant

#16

Post by usrusr »

adrianN wrote: post #11
b_tterc_p wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be down for ghost in the shell merging with select individuals. But the borg feels like... just dying pointlessly. It’s like you’re assuming that you’re joining a greater purpose simply because there’s more people in it than you yourself. It’s up there for least compelling ideologies.

But by joining the collective you don't die, you mind becomes part of the hive mind. It's not gone, it still has a (minuscule) influence on the behavior of the whole swarm.

Voter turnout figures suggest that being a miniscule influence isn't exactly what people consider having a good time.

Re: Mankind's Inner Ant

#18

Post by Concrescator »

devoply wrote: post #14
Jun8 wrote: post #3

"The second implication is that there is no hope for a universal human society. “The notion of cosmopolitanism, the idea that the people of the world will come to feel a primary connection to the human race, is a pipe dream,” Moffett says." One of the questions I ask to new-found friends to get to know them better is: "How do you feel about the Borg? If there was such a central system would you agree to be hooked up?…

Moffett is wrong. If we can have 1-2 billion people rally behind a single religion we can have a cosmopolitan society. The question is how do we divide up things so people feel that they are getting their fair share... without destroying the planet.

I've been asking myself this also. We have the ability to be more productive(vastly). The question is how much more productive can we be without reaching the asymptote that represents environmental death.

I think we have reached a critical junction where we must pause and consider our environmental and social impacts first and foremost. We evolved divine conscious to protect diversity of all kinds. Our failures and successes will lead to further propagation. Before we were the dominant species on this planet biodiversity was thriving. Our goals should be to seek further diversity in information, life, and living systems. Success is not guaranteed in our lifetime, but guaranteed in infinity. We should do our best though.

Re: Mankind's Inner Ant

#19

Post by b_tterc_p »

usrusr wrote: post #16
adrianN wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But by joining the collective you don't die, you mind becomes part of the hive mind. It's not gone, it still has a (minuscule) influence on the behavior of the whole swarm.

Voter turnout figures suggest that being a miniscule influence isn't exactly what people consider having a good time.

Amusing but insightful

Re: Mankind's Inner Ant

#20

Post by b_tterc_p »

adrianN wrote: post #11
b_tterc_p wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be down for ghost in the shell merging with select individuals. But the borg feels like... just dying pointlessly. It’s like you’re assuming that you’re joining a greater purpose simply because there’s more people in it than you yourself. It’s up there for least compelling ideologies.

But by joining the collective you don't die, you mind becomes part of the hive mind. It's not gone, it still has a (minuscule) influence on the behavior of the whole swarm.

Do you look at the general public and conclude that, on average, a random person tends to make informed decisions that you would like to be a part of? As an American, I routinely think that half of the country has terrible reasoning and that the other half is technically making better decisions for often equally dumb reasoning. I feel like a borg would be observably similar. Look at the decisions it makes. If you disagree with most of them (strongly), would you join it? It’s not all that different from joining any social group. You just offer it 100% of your salient identity.
Post reply on HN