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Tiananmen Square: China minister defends 1989 crackdown

bbc.com

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Re: Tiananmen Square: China minister defends 1989 crackdown

#11

Post by Nasrudith »

This sadly isn't news - authoritarians never admit their mistakes.

They unironically invoked Mao's pest campaign when the last time they did that they created mass famine because in the absense of chemical pesticides it is far preferable to pay the "sparrow tax" than have uneaten locust grubs eat everything.

The best they have for Mao is doublethink where they abandoned his views and suppress Maoists while refusing to condemn him and his mistakes for fear of it harming their "legitimacy".

Re: Tiananmen Square: China minister defends 1989 crackdown

#12

Post by scotty79 »

gesticulator wrote: post #7
nickysielicki wrote: post #6

Same sort of response I'd expect an American Government Diplomat to give if asked about what happened to the 82 men/women/children of the Branch Davidians in Waco, TX. Governments defend their actions, usually.

Isn’t the suppression of the event in media the key difference, though? The Waco massacre was widely discussed and publicized, and you can find plenty of information on it if you’d like - including people that defend the Waco standoff.

It seems to me like Orwell vs. Huxley difference. In the end thing is mostly forgotten in both cases.

Re: Tiananmen Square: China minister defends 1989 crackdown

#13

Post by imglorp »

marak830 wrote: post #4

"That incident was a political turbulence and the central government took measures to stop the turbulence, which is a correct policy," he told the forum. Gunning down protesters then grinding into a mulch with tanks and aocs, so that you can wash the remains down the gutters is never a solution. Trying to push this incident into the background only shows how little change has happened. Once more - this isn't a situat…

Right. And it's not like the Dalai Lama can go home either. The only thing that's changed is they dictate more of the groupthink than they did in 89. The social credit system is probably going to be more effective than that tanks were.

Re: Tiananmen Square: China minister defends 1989 crackdown

#15

Post by Causality1 »

marak830 wrote: post #4

"That incident was a political turbulence and the central government took measures to stop the turbulence, which is a correct policy," he told the forum. Gunning down protesters then grinding into a mulch with tanks and aocs, so that you can wash the remains down the gutters is never a solution. Trying to push this incident into the background only shows how little change has happened. Once more - this isn't a situat…

We act like we find it so unacceptable but we're still perfectly willing to do business with them. Why should they change if they know they can get away with anything since $100 televisions matter more to us than our principles?

Re: Tiananmen Square: China minister defends 1989 crackdown

#16

Post by seanmcdirmid »

nickysielicki wrote: post #6

Same sort of response I'd expect an American Government Diplomat to give if asked about what happened to the 82 men/women/children of the Branch Davidians in Waco, TX. Governments defend their actions, usually.

None of those events are hidden from view, are taboo for the press or public to talk about, and have even been studied in depth with research available to the public.

Not the same at all. If the Chinese government were smart, they could have had the debate, shrugged off any conclusions they didn’t like, and let general apathy run its course. But they didn’t do that.

Re: Tiananmen Square: China minister defends 1989 crackdown

#17

Post by Rebelgecko »

peisistratos wrote: post #9

It sounds like the US government ministers who defended the 1992 crackdown in Los Angeles at the Republican National Convention and elsewhere. The US army marched in to quell the upset, and dozens were killed. Although we do not hear much about that in the US other than praise of the army. Just endless rehashes of Beijing events before LA happened, in the middle of Trump's trade and South China sea war with China.

The 1992 Republican National Convention was in Houston and AFAIK no one died

Re: Tiananmen Square: China minister defends 1989 crackdown

#19

Post by DFHippie »

nickysielicki wrote: post #6

Same sort of response I'd expect an American Government Diplomat to give if asked about what happened to the 82 men/women/children of the Branch Davidians in Waco, TX. Governments defend their actions, usually.

You might expect this, but this says more about you than it does about the American government and its diplomats, at least the ones in charge when the Branch Davidians were in armed rebellion against the US government. Here is a reference describing her apology at the time: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Janet-Reno . The relevant quote: "Reno’s acceptance of full responsibility and her candour and obvious regret over the incident helped her earn the respect of many Americans."

Re: Tiananmen Square: China minister defends 1989 crackdown

#20

Post by felipemnoa »

thrwwayy1905 wrote: post #14

I am trying to understand what it feels like to Chinese people. As Americans, is there any past government action we can't criticize? I am sure there is some example but I can't think of it. Is there something similar for us?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
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