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SpaceX satellites could blight the night sky, warn astronomers

theguardian.com

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Re: SpaceX satellites could blight the night sky, warn astronomers

#11

Post by nonnontrivial »

Wondering if these satellites follow a fixed path. If so, and there are few enough of them, the nextgen land-based optical telescopes will just have to factor this into scheduling.

Has SpaceX said anything about the paths they will follow? Can they change mid-deployment?

Re: SpaceX satellites could blight the night sky, warn astronomers

#12

Post by Robotbeat »

jasonhansel wrote: post #8
vikramkr wrote: post #2

Is it worth protecting ground based astronomy here though? Obviously the science is immensely important, but so is the internet, I dont buy this idea about the lack of consensus being an issue. Certainly the scientists should have had their say, and perhaps this should have been put up for a more public debate before the project was initiated, but I don't think that the go ahead to the project should be contingent on…

AFAICT this would affect even casual stargazers, not just astronomers.

In the sense that, yes, you can see satellites in space. As a casual stargazer myself, spotting satellites is one of the fun parts of stargazing.

Re: SpaceX satellites could blight the night sky, warn astronomers

#13

Post by Robotbeat »

SmokeGS wrote: post #7

Billboards from LEO. I'm not a fan but it could monetize key tech for space travel.

As a defender of space travel and Starlink: Nobody in their right mind wants that. Public reaction would rightly be swift and negative. Starlink provides a useful, widely available service and the fact you can see them is a side effect (they're not very bright operationally, so it's not really a negative). But a billboard is effectively legal graffiti.

Re: SpaceX satellites could blight the night sky, warn astronomers

#14

Post by givinguflac »

mdorazio wrote: post #3
vikramkr wrote: post #2

Is it worth protecting ground based astronomy here though? Obviously the science is immensely important, but so is the internet, I dont buy this idea about the lack of consensus being an issue. Certainly the scientists should have had their say, and perhaps this should have been put up for a more public debate before the project was initiated, but I don't think that the go ahead to the project should be contingent on…

Possibly unpopular opinion: no, I don't think it's worth protecting ground-based astronomy. I could be wrong, but the majority of the important visual/IR astronomical observations from the last decade seem have come from space-based instruments, not ground-based ones. We need to put more instruments in orbit, not worry about fundamentally limited ones on the ground. Additionally, this seems to me like an overall posi…

While obviously we're making more advanced measurements with space-based instruments, the value of the night sky for the average human cannot be overblown. Many people don't know what they're missing, having never lived outside of broad scale light pollution. While I don't think we necessarily need to worry about all ground-based telescopes, I do think that the average person being able to look at the sky and see the stars is something we should never give up on.

Re: SpaceX satellites could blight the night sky, warn astronomers

#16

Post by vikramkr »

unethical_ban wrote: post #6
vikramkr wrote: post #2

Is it worth protecting ground based astronomy here though? Obviously the science is immensely important, but so is the internet, I dont buy this idea about the lack of consensus being an issue. Certainly the scientists should have had their say, and perhaps this should have been put up for a more public debate before the project was initiated, but I don't think that the go ahead to the project should be contingent on…

>I don't think that the go ahead to the project should be contingent on consensus from the scientific community. Something that could have immense impact on astronomy, the interest of the population in the cosmos, and a permanent change to the night sky shouldn't have some consensus, at least morally? >It should be contingent on approval from a regulatory body that is appointed/controlled in some democratic way and r…

I dont think that they should have veto power, or that there is an inherent moral responsibility. That doesnt mean that I think starlink is justified, there should have been more debate and to tour point I certainly dont believe that the current regulatory standards were sufficient. What I believe is that it is up to astronomers to make their case to the public (starlink had plenty of advance notice) about why it is important to stop starlink, and that if the public is not convinced, there is no obligation to have any sort of consensus, moral or otherwise, from astronomers before launching. They don't own the sky any more than SpaceX does. The same point you made for the value of space based internet applies to the astronomers as well - do they need ground based telescopes or would space based telescopes be equally capable without affecting the sky by shutting down attempts to increase internet access and provide better connectivity via satellite? Obviously, both sides want the night sky for their own use, and if there is no way that a constellation of satellites will not interfere with astronomy, then both groups need to make their case. And if society decided astronomy was more important than space internet, I would be equally unopposed to shutting down these sorts of projects without the consensus of the companies investing in them. We do absolutely need a better regulatory framework though.

Re: SpaceX satellites could blight the night sky, warn astronomers

#17

Post by pfdietz »

vikramkr wrote: post #2

Is it worth protecting ground based astronomy here though? Obviously the science is immensely important, but so is the internet, I dont buy this idea about the lack of consensus being an issue. Certainly the scientists should have had their say, and perhaps this should have been put up for a more public debate before the project was initiated, but I don't think that the go ahead to the project should be contingent on…

The importance society places on something can be judged by how much money it's willing to spend on it.

The NSF budget for astronomy is $250M/year.

Revenue projections for Starlink reach as high as $50B/year.

Re: SpaceX satellites could blight the night sky, warn astronomers

#18

Post by errantspark »

Someone ought to do a simulation of what this would look like with the full constellation. I love stargazing, I take days long trips to go to dark sites just so I can enjoy the sky. I imagine it would be quite beautiful to see that the implied lattice around the earth as sun glints off the solar panels.

I'm personally so excited to see these, I think it will be a breathtaking, tangible emblem of one of the first planet-scale systems that humans have built.

Re: SpaceX satellites could blight the night sky, warn astronomers

#20

Post by jasonhansel »

Robotbeat wrote: post #12
jasonhansel wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAICT this would affect even casual stargazers, not just astronomers.

In the sense that, yes, you can see satellites in space. As a casual stargazer myself, spotting satellites is one of the fun parts of stargazing.

Spotting satellites can be fun, but seeing dozens of them at all times (which is what the article claims) would be rather unpleasant.
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