I don't want to be a full-fullstack developer • Hacker News Board

Re: I don't want to be a full-fullstack developer

#11

Post by root_axis » Sat, May 25, 2019, 8:38 PM UTC

> As years go by the industry is going deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole of developer-focused engineering process and developers go on to combine more and more responsibilities beneath the surface of single cranium.

Why do you think developer salaries are so high? As the advancement and sophistication of open-source and SaaS offerings increasingly empowers individual developers to do more for businesses, so do developers leverage those capabilities to demand higher salaries and become more and more integral, as individuals, to the business process. The natural consequence of this is that companies have increased their expectations across the board because they ultimately get more value out of a highly paid full-stack than paying three moderately smaller salaries to a FEE, BEE and a manager/architect/SME to coordinate their efforts.

Re: I don't want to be a full-fullstack developer

#12

Post by hinkley » Sat, May 25, 2019, 8:39 PM UTC

11235813213455 wrote: post #3

For me, Fullstack is only enjoyable when using JS or TypeScript both in backend and frontend

I thought I’d feel that way but it turns out I need a break from Javascript sometimes. Doing a backend story once in a while got me a little break from that before Node. Now I’ve only got the build system and docker as relief valves and it’s not enough long term.

Re: I don't want to be a full-fullstack developer

#13

Post by rashthedude » Sat, May 25, 2019, 8:43 PM UTC

I do have to agree with this article insofar as to what companies are expecting from potential candidates way more than is feasible that's unless the BE and FE use the same language. But as a technical founder you just do not have a choice but to wear all hats.

Re: I don't want to be a full-fullstack developer

#14

Post by gentleterror » Sat, May 25, 2019, 8:44 PM UTC

root_axis wrote: post #11

> As years go by the industry is going deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole of developer-focused engineering process and developers go on to combine more and more responsibilities beneath the surface of single cranium. Why do you think developer salaries are so high? As the advancement and sophistication of open-source and SaaS offerings increasingly empowers individual developers to do more for businesses, so do d…

But it does not work that well. Some individuals(not many) do apply to higher standard while the others just slack on the trend wave. And they can do more harm because their responsibility is almost everywhere.

Re: I don't want to be a full-fullstack developer

#15

Post by cutler » Sat, May 25, 2019, 8:46 PM UTC

If you're a solo freelancer full-stack is exactly what you want to be. Being in charge of the whole development process is a big win. I'm not sure full-stack needs to include being an artistic graphic designer, though. Usually it's enough to be able to wield Photoshop well enough to produce business-grade (read boring) graphics. Farm it out to art school students if you need anything more exotic. They'll be glad of the extra income to supplement their grant.

Re: I don't want to be a full-fullstack developer

#16

Post by 20years » Sat, May 25, 2019, 8:46 PM UTC

root_axis wrote: post #11

> As years go by the industry is going deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole of developer-focused engineering process and developers go on to combine more and more responsibilities beneath the surface of single cranium. Why do you think developer salaries are so high? As the advancement and sophistication of open-source and SaaS offerings increasingly empowers individual developers to do more for businesses, so do d…

The problem that I have seen is most companies don't want to pay a skilled full-stack developer what they are worth. They think $100k is the going rate and unfortunately a lot of junior developers are calling themselves full-stack and jumping at that salary. Then the lines get blurred and the true value of a full-stack developer gets diminished.

Re: I don't want to be a full-fullstack developer

#17

Post by thrower123 » Sat, May 25, 2019, 8:53 PM UTC

I've worked with very few developers that I could even begin to call full-stack. They either segment themselves as front-end or back-end only, and can't cross the divide. I don't much like it, because that interface between the two is usually terrible as a result, with pieces that don't match, APIs that don't even work, and generally a huge amount of work to integrate by somebody that actually understands both pieces, that rivals rewriting it completely.

Owning an entire vertical slice is so much easier, and produces a better quality product.

Re: I don't want to be a full-fullstack developer

#18

Post by bradhe » Sat, May 25, 2019, 8:54 PM UTC

20years wrote: post #16

root_axis wrote: post #11

> As years go by the industry is going deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole of developer-focused engineering process and developers go on to combine more and more responsibilities beneath the surface of single cranium. Why do you think developer salaries are so high? As the advancement and sophistication of open-source and SaaS offerings increasingly empowers individual developers to do more for businesses, so do d…

The problem that I have seen is most companies don't want to pay a skilled full-stack developer what they are worth. They think $100k is the going rate and unfortunately a lot of junior developers are calling themselves full-stack and jumping at that salary. Then the lines get blurred and the true value of a full-stack developer gets diminished.

> They think $100k is the going rate

Okay. So get a different job.

Re: I don't want to be a full-fullstack developer

#19

Post by dgzl » Sat, May 25, 2019, 9:00 PM UTC

20years wrote: post #16

root_axis wrote: post #11

> As years go by the industry is going deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole of developer-focused engineering process and developers go on to combine more and more responsibilities beneath the surface of single cranium. Why do you think developer salaries are so high? As the advancement and sophistication of open-source and SaaS offerings increasingly empowers individual developers to do more for businesses, so do d…

The problem that I have seen is most companies don't want to pay a skilled full-stack developer what they are worth. They think $100k is the going rate and unfortunately a lot of junior developers are calling themselves full-stack and jumping at that salary. Then the lines get blurred and the true value of a full-stack developer gets diminished.

I recently was looking for new work. When trying to apply to Developer opportunities, I realized that recruiters largely didn't know what they were talking about.

Many times I was told that my Computer Science degree, large school projects, personal projects such as random apps and maintaining an Arch Linux setup, awards such as winning 1st place in a Google Hackathon, several years of student work including iOS development work, and my 3 years industry experience as a Technical Lead somehow was less valuable than people graduating from coding bootcamps.

I was told by many people that I was not qualified for a Junior Developer position, but people coming out of these bootcamps were considered "Seniors". I was told by one recruiter that my "degree is almost useless".

Re: I don't want to be a full-fullstack developer

#20

Post by exfaang » Sat, May 25, 2019, 9:00 PM UTC

root_axis wrote: post #11

> As years go by the industry is going deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole of developer-focused engineering process and developers go on to combine more and more responsibilities beneath the surface of single cranium. Why do you think developer salaries are so high? As the advancement and sophistication of open-source and SaaS offerings increasingly empowers individual developers to do more for businesses, so do d…

I disagree with that assessment. Sophisticated open source, IaaS, and SaaS offerings greatly lower the barrier of entry in this industry and ought to have a negative effect on wages as dictated by supply and demand.

Your argument undermines itself by highlighting that a single open-source-equipped person can do the job of 3 grey beards of old. That automation of labor runs counter to rising wages.

As another data point, some of the highest paid engineers in the industry - those manning in the private battlements of the FAANG citadels - are specialist steeped in closed source arcana. I myself have been such an acolyte for many years.

My own take on the situation is that the distribution of skillets will further take on a bimodal distribution: the specialists and the generalists.

For now both the supply of sophisticated tools and capable practitioners has not kept pace with the demand from modernizing business. When the demand is met and equilibrium reached, I expect salaries to normalize back to what other technical professionals command (e.g. aerospace and civil engineers).