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Buying an IBM Mainframe

blog.mainframe.dev

11–20 of 111 posts

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#14
It's a lot cheaper in to do this in the US and with a long term view, my total outlay was under $3000 for a z800, z114, ds6800 all in with transportation. I also temporarily had two DS8870s but resold them because they were worth a lot more than I paid and I will pick up another for cheaper over the course of this year. Both of my frames have HMCs, the z114 was even IBM banded and "MSQ" maintenance service qualified which means they'd come and set it back up for some not-too-outrageous monthly fee if it were in production use.

The z800/z890 are probably optimal for hobby use even though they are old because they have modest power requirements and are relatively light and not too wide like the z114 which is absolutely massive.

Actually a P/390 (MCA or PCI card), or Multiprise 3000 (deskside hybrid CMOS/PC server thing) would be even easier but those are very very old 31-bit systems at this point. (I also have a R/390 setup and can comment on that if desired)

Now that said, this requires A LOT of dedication to get right. You need to understand at minimum shipping/transport issues, as well as electrical requirements and installation (or be willing to consult someone that can advise you on phase and conversion if necessary).

After that, you definitely need an HMC (a PC used to do things like load the OS) or at least a recovery disk and a lot of patience to set that up in emulation or on other hardware.

And then, you need a FICON (or older ESCON) capable array. Connor Krukosky goes into detail about what it's like without that, and you are extremely limited (basically Linux) in what you can do without FICON. A ds6800 is the easiest way to do that because it is a small rackmount unit, but they are also in demand for that reason. DS8ks are quite cheap all things considered, but serious iron like the frame itself.

And then finally you need some OS media which is also non-trivial to get (although there is or was some "out there" on file sharing).

I am willing to help anyone interested in this kind of thing for fun and preservation of incredible technology and history.

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#15
It's not the same, but if you'd like to have a go at mainframe technologies you can do it with a Pi Zero:

https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/my-raspberry-pi-thinks...

Once you have the basic emulator setup working, check out the Turnkey system below. It's MVS 3.8 so not current Z/OS. If you google around for z/os ADCD, you might find an actual Z/OS CD to try next.

http://wotho.ethz.ch/tk4-/

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#16
post #9
post #4

Is it just for the fun or is there actually a legit use case for having a mainframe at home apart from accelerating climate change?

I'm not even sure if there are still use cases where companies use main frames for newly developed systems. Even core banking systems can be build without using a main frame.

If you Google around a bit, mainframes are pretty expensive, but have very high up times and other benefits.

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#17
Now this is an expensive hobby. I spent this on my last car (a necessity where I live).

It was a great read though and I'd probably buy one as well if I had the money, time, and space. They seem like underrated machines.

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#19
post #6
post #4

Is it just for the fun or is there actually a legit use case for having a mainframe at home apart from accelerating climate change?

Fun and learning. I doubt there’s a legit use-case for a mainframe even in business environments. All the “reliability” it gives you can be re-implemented on commodity hardware and still come out ahead compared to the costs of buying & maintaining a mainframe.

I wonder how much cheaper it is to implement software for one, huge machine that „just works”, vs the usual way of implementing for a network of distributed machines. Distributed programming is NOT easy, and, even if the hard parts are supposedly implemented by various protocols/frameworks, these solutions constrain the way you can program and also have a ton of „interesting” failure states - just take a look at logs of say Hadoop cluster that’s been running for a while - even though the cluster is supposedly running fine (or is it?), you’ll find various kinds of exceptions related to the distributed model (socket timeouts and whatnot). Not to mention trying to thoroughly understand various eventual consistency models.

On th plus side, we’ve basically moved complexity from hardware to software (it was pioneered by Google, a software company, so no wonder) which increases salaries of software people, at the expense of hardware people. So yay for us I guess.

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#20
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not even sure if there are still use cases where companies use main frames for newly developed systems. Even core banking systems can be build without using a main frame.

If you Google around a bit, mainframes are pretty expensive, but have very high up times and other benefits.

Can't you get to that uptime with a well-configured cluster? I tried to find more information but couldn't find any other reasons why mainframes would still be the best option for a newly designed system?
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