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Documentary About Pedophile Priests Shakes Up Poland

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Re: Documentary About Pedophile Priests Shakes Up Poland

#11

Post by ASalazarMX »

devoply wrote: post #2

Tell sexual humans not to be sexual due to some made up non-sense myths and put them in positions of power and authority, what could possibly go wrong? They want to stop child abuse, and sure who is not for that, but how about stopping myth abuse?

Religion has no bearing in this, it's the church who has been the facilitator, and the church is made of regular people.

Priests have sexual needs, that's understandable, but they could satisfy them without victimizing others. The line is harming someone, specially if they are defenseless. The beliefs of the perpetrators don't enter the equation.

Re: Documentary About Pedophile Priests Shakes Up Poland

#13

Post by jbob2000 »

phoe-krk wrote: post #4

The documentary is very good and based on facts, and the Polish church never had and still does not have any means of getting rid of people such as the collaborators who have been implanted there by the old communist governments or child molesters who proliferate in this environment, having unrestricted access to children in schools and churches. They are simply moved from one chapel to another or, eventually, to hou…

But what if there’s nothing to purge? What if the church itself is the catalyst for creating predators?

The fact that this problem has spanned generations tells me that this isn’t something you can purge, it’s fundamental to the way the church operates. Ask a man to be celibate and then give him unquestioned, divine power over individuals? Of course you’re going to have a predator problem!

Re: Documentary About Pedophile Priests Shakes Up Poland

#14

Post by viraptor »

phoe-krk wrote: post #4

The documentary is very good and based on facts, and the Polish church never had and still does not have any means of getting rid of people such as the collaborators who have been implanted there by the old communist governments or child molesters who proliferate in this environment, having unrestricted access to children in schools and churches. They are simply moved from one chapel to another or, eventually, to hou…

> and the Polish church never had and still does not have any means of getting rid of people

Why do you think so? I believe they can be excommunicated. There's a known process around it, even if rarely used.

Re: Documentary About Pedophile Priests Shakes Up Poland

#15

Post by javagram »

jbob2000 wrote: post #13
phoe-krk wrote: post #4

The documentary is very good and based on facts, and the Polish church never had and still does not have any means of getting rid of people such as the collaborators who have been implanted there by the old communist governments or child molesters who proliferate in this environment, having unrestricted access to children in schools and churches. They are simply moved from one chapel to another or, eventually, to hou…

But what if there’s nothing to purge? What if the church itself is the catalyst for creating predators? The fact that this problem has spanned generations tells me that this isn’t something you can purge, it’s fundamental to the way the church operates. Ask a man to be celibate and then give him unquestioned, divine power over individuals? Of course you’re going to have a predator problem!

Institutions such as public schools and the Boy Scouts that do not require celibacy have had very similar problems. So have some Protestant churches that allow their ministers to marry.

The John Jay report done on clerical sex abuse in the USA didn’t find the percentage of abusers in the priesthood to be significantly different from those in other professions.

The impulse to cover up is not limited to the institution of celibacy by any means.

Unfortunately as a catholic I fear this is a ticking time bomb for many non first world churches. The church here in the US only put into place decent zero-tolerance policies in the late 90s and early 2000s and many churches in other regions have failed to take matching action.

Re: Documentary About Pedophile Priests Shakes Up Poland

#16

Post by [deleted] »

jbob2000 wrote: post #13
phoe-krk wrote: post #4

The documentary is very good and based on facts, and the Polish church never had and still does not have any means of getting rid of people such as the collaborators who have been implanted there by the old communist governments or child molesters who proliferate in this environment, having unrestricted access to children in schools and churches. They are simply moved from one chapel to another or, eventually, to hou…

But what if there’s nothing to purge? What if the church itself is the catalyst for creating predators? The fact that this problem has spanned generations tells me that this isn’t something you can purge, it’s fundamental to the way the church operates. Ask a man to be celibate and then give him unquestioned, divine power over individuals? Of course you’re going to have a predator problem!

[deleted]

Re: Documentary About Pedophile Priests Shakes Up Poland

#17

Post by outside1234 »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #11
devoply wrote: post #2

Tell sexual humans not to be sexual due to some made up non-sense myths and put them in positions of power and authority, what could possibly go wrong? They want to stop child abuse, and sure who is not for that, but how about stopping myth abuse?

Religion has no bearing in this, it's the church who has been the facilitator, and the church is made of regular people. Priests have sexual needs, that's understandable, but they could satisfy them without victimizing others. The line is harming someone, specially if they are defenseless. The beliefs of the perpetrators don't enter the equation.

You can't say religion has no bearing in this, as it quite literally says that Priests can't have a wife.

It seems entirely predictable to me that this drives selecting folks for these positions that don't want wives, but want something else.

Re: Documentary About Pedophile Priests Shakes Up Poland

#18

Post by avgDev »

Poland is insanely religious. I grew up in Poland and moved to US with my parents at age of 14. I became an atheist. Recently, I visited Poland, and was amazed that people my age are still mostly religious.

Recently, I read a story about people who took down a statue of a priest who molested children. There was an outcry and some politician had the statue put back in its place. That is just so twisted. Many people I talked to in Poland don't want to even discuss church and systematic protection of pedophiles. It makes them very uneasy but they want to ignore it i guess?

Re: Documentary About Pedophile Priests Shakes Up Poland

#19

Post by ajuc »

avgDev wrote: post #18

Poland is insanely religious. I grew up in Poland and moved to US with my parents at age of 14. I became an atheist. Recently, I visited Poland, and was amazed that people my age are still mostly religious. Recently, I read a story about people who took down a statue of a priest who molested children. There was an outcry and some politician had the statue put back in its place. That is just so twisted. Many people I…

The problem with that particular statue was procedural - they illegally took down that statue before the city council decided what to do with it as the accusations appeared. I can understand why these people did it - they can be frustrated after decades of being ignored.

The late president of Gdańsk said they will take it down, but it takes time for the procedure, and the activists took it down themselves before that. So they will probably put it back and then take it down legally. As funny as this sounds Gdańsk is very liberal for Poland.

But, generally I agree - Poland is crazy religious, and the problem with that particular priest was that he knew all the highest officials in Poland, including even presidents. He was the Solidarity priest, that participated in the protests against communism. At first it was almost a national betrayal to say anything bad about him (because he was a figure of anti-communism opposition), then after communism failed he knew presidents and prime ministers and who would act on these accusations.

So he died without being officially accused, and now it's hard to even get people to remove the statues...

Re: Documentary About Pedophile Priests Shakes Up Poland

#20

Post by jacquesm »

javagram wrote: post #15
jbob2000 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what if there’s nothing to purge? What if the church itself is the catalyst for creating predators? The fact that this problem has spanned generations tells me that this isn’t something you can purge, it’s fundamental to the way the church operates. Ask a man to be celibate and then give him unquestioned, divine power over individuals? Of course you’re going to have a predator problem!

Institutions such as public schools and the Boy Scouts that do not require celibacy have had very similar problems. So have some Protestant churches that allow their ministers to marry. The John Jay report done on clerical sex abuse in the USA didn’t find the percentage of abusers in the priesthood to be significantly different from those in other professions. The impulse to cover up is not limited to the institution…

> Institutions such as public schools and the Boy Scouts that do not require celibacy have had very similar problems.

All have one thing in common: adults with unchecked power over minors.

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