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Why what we think we know about schizophrenia is wrong

theguardian.com

11–20 of 72 posts

Re: Why what we think we know about schizophrenia is wrong

#11
post #8

My youngest brother has schizophrenia, which started when he was 19. He just turned 31, and were it not for his family supporting and caring for him, I'm sure he would be homeless or worse. He's one of the most sensitive, gentle people I have ever known. My wife and others who have gotten to know him would agree. Although he's "stable", thanks to an injection every 3 weeks, he's not going to ever get better. In fact…

> Why don't you go to the bowling group, movie night, job placement, etc, I used to ask him. Those people are crazy, he said. It might be tempting to read something like this and think "of course the crazy person thinks normal people are crazy". But I'd argue that "sane" people's reactions to mentally ill people are frequently more irrational and scary than the symptoms of the illness itself.

I should have clarified, those groups are organized by a local psych facility, and are for people with mental illness.

Re: Why what we think we know about schizophrenia is wrong

#12
post #8

My youngest brother has schizophrenia, which started when he was 19. He just turned 31, and were it not for his family supporting and caring for him, I'm sure he would be homeless or worse. He's one of the most sensitive, gentle people I have ever known. My wife and others who have gotten to know him would agree. Although he's "stable", thanks to an injection every 3 weeks, he's not going to ever get better. In fact…

It might be he doesn't want to associate with people, groups, events that revolve around the diagnosis. Perhaps that labels him an "other" and it feels little much. Why not similar activities with the general population?

That is not meant to belittle the point that delusional people will strongly deny their symptoms, of course. Being close to somebody like that gets tough, especially when the delusions have led to harm to self or others -- even after they get treatment and it works, it's easy to become paranoid of relapse and fear that every small act of legit defiance or assertion of self is a recurrence of symptoms.

Re: Why what we think we know about schizophrenia is wrong

#13
Most of the supposed "mental-health conditions" are manifestations of stress. There are two kinds of stress: biological and emotional.

Biological stress is related to things like being malnourished and/or having hormonal imbalances (thyroid, cortisol, progesterone, etc), not getting enough sunlight (no red light -> winter sickness / UV light-> Vitamin D), etc. Biological stress is worsened when a person is medicated with patent medicines that are approved for treating behavioral symptoms by implementing wrong-theory about the cause of the behavioral symptom (i.e., inadequate serotonin -> depression [0], excess dopamine -> psychosis, etc).

Some scientists rediscovered a few years ago that the behavioral symptom of "psychosis" is strongly associated with an inability to make adequate amounts of the stress hormone cortisol [1].

Emotional stress has to do with people feeling trapped. From the article: "Importantly, what we call psychosis can also be a response to extreme stress or trauma."

Emotional stress leads to the release of cortisol too. If a person's long-term emotional stress exceeds their ability to compensate, their "mental health" will suffer.

One part of this article is about forcibly medicating people whom the professionals think don't realize they need the pills they're prescribed. IMHO, it is an act of violence to force a person to take pills that make them suicidal [2]. The legal systems generally recognize that people have a choice in medical treatments, but struggles with patients who don't even realize they have a problem [3], and/or don't like the treatments the professionals think they need. In the US the courts have decided that people can't be "helped" against their will without a court order. This is why Jared Loughner, the man who shot up Congresswoman Gifford's event, couldn't be helped, even though the people around him noticed that his behavior had changed [4].

The professionals tried to label my girlfriend as "schizophrenic". Really she was just stressed ("lonely"), and was suffering from the adverse effects of various medical interventions. Methadone causes sugar cravings; she'd taken to treating this medication-induced metabolic problem with alcohol a few days before we'd met (alcohol has 7 calories/gram, while sugar only has 4 calories/gram).

In my initial assessment she also reported being injected with a prescription endocrine disruptor maybe 10 years before [5]. This prescription drug has warnings about endocrine disruption [6], but doctors don't appreciate their patients' iatrogenic deterioration when it's associated with this defective drug.

My girlfriend became psychotic when she ran out of alcohol , but rather than treating her for the cause [7] they treat her for the symptom with "anti-psychotics". I consider her involuntary treatment program to be "medical assault". I found a lawyer a while back who was familiar with how the state's involuntary treatment system works, but lawyers are expensive, so I tried to go at it myself. Maybe the legal guild didn't take kindly to a legal-nobody pointing out that their system is ugly.

I guess I'm going to hire the lawyer.

tl/dr: The conventional practices of the mental health industry are wrong. Institutional inertia prevents the profession from fixing itself. Little bits of progress have been made in recognizing the system's contribution to the patient's problems. As I said before, the system needs a re-write: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19545964

[0] What has serotonin to do with depression? - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4471964/

[1] https://psychcentral.com/news/2016/06/04/low-morning-cortiso...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akathisia#Drug-induced

[3] Anosognosia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anosognosia

[4] Jared Loughner - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Lee_Loughner#Behavior_ch... "In the months leading up to the shooting, Loughner's parents became increasingly alarmed at their son's behavior, at one point resorting to disabling his car every night in order to keep him at home."

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depo-Provera

[6] "Effects on the Hypothalmic-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis: Some patients receiving medroxyprogesterone acetate may exhibit suppressed adrenal function. Medroxyprogesterone acetate may have cortisol-like glucocorticoid activity and provide negative feedback to the hypothalamus or pituitary. This may result in decreased plasma cortisol levels, decreased cortisol secretion, and low plasma ACTH levels.The use of DEPO-PROVERA Sterile Aqueous Suspension may, due to its cortisol-like glucocorticoid activity, also produce Cushingoid symptoms such as weight gain, edema/fluid retention, and facial swelling." - https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2017/01...

[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance-induced_psychosis#Su... - "Alcohol is a common cause of psychotic disorders or episodes, which may occur through acute intoxication, chronic alcoholism, withdrawal, exacerbation of existing disorders, or acute idiosyncratic reactions. Research has shown that alcohol abuse causes an 8-fold increased risk of psychotic disorders in men and a 3 fold increased risk of psychotic disorders in women. While the vast majority of cases are acute and resolve fairly quickly upon treatment and/or abstinence, they can occasionally become chronic and persistent. Alcoholic psychosis is sometimes misdiagnosed as another mental illness such as schizophrenia." (emphasis added)

(edit: added reference [7])

Re: Why what we think we know about schizophrenia is wrong

#15
Treating DSM categories as if they were a single disease is completely misguided. The DSM describes syndromes, and ignores pathophysiology because we still have little to no idea of what happens in the brain (at least not enough to properly understand the relevant functional aspects).

Genome-wide association studies have recently shown that schizophrenia was in fact several distinct diseases [0]. Their symptoms turn out to be mediated by the same drugs, to the extent that they makes the people who suffer from those ailments manageable.

If your house suddenly becomes cold in the winter, putting on a jacket will help you feel better. You wouldn't infer from that that your furnace is down because of a clothing imbalance.

[0] https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.2...

Re: Why what we think we know about schizophrenia is wrong

#16
post #8

My youngest brother has schizophrenia, which started when he was 19. He just turned 31, and were it not for his family supporting and caring for him, I'm sure he would be homeless or worse. He's one of the most sensitive, gentle people I have ever known. My wife and others who have gotten to know him would agree. Although he's "stable", thanks to an injection every 3 weeks, he's not going to ever get better. In fact…

I have a brother who went through about a decade of off and on psychosis, had probably over 20 hospitalizations, multiple suicide attempts, he had schizophrenia. So I moved home and lived with him, I never fully believed the diagnosis. He was on such a cocktail of medicine, I don't think anyone could stay sane on all of that. We started getting him off the antipsychs, off the mood stabilizers, no wellbutrin etc. A year later he has had no psychotic episodes, no mania, is trying to quit smoking, and is more social. He still has his days in bed, but hes a real person, not a schizophrenic.

Re: Why what we think we know about schizophrenia is wrong

#17

Much, if not all, of mental health is based on theories and assumptions." "It's thought that..." when referring to how medications work. Let's just agree that we all know nothing about mental health.

We know a lot.

If there is a comprehensive theory it is that mental disorders and developmental disabilities come in layers.

You might have a genetic predisposition to certain problems, have that exacerbated by traumas, but learn how to compensate for them in some ways. You might do badly at certain things or certain situations but if you have support from other people, understand the difficulty, etc. you can do O.K.

The big trouble I think is that mental illness and developmental disabilities interact with the expectations that people have about others.

For instance much of the satisfaction parents get out of parenting is using their children as "self objects"; they want to dress them up, show them off, bask in their accomplishments, etc. An autistic child can't do that for them and they find that hard to accept.

The marketing of SSRI's is also distorted. They are prescribed a lot by primary care docs who need to be on top of a wide range of medical problems and can't be experts on mental health too. That is a good thing because they help people and it can be hard to get real help from a specialist.

Depression has many symptoms and for many people SSRIs help some symptoms but not others. For me, for instance, SSRIs help me control my emotions in situations where I might get overwhelmed and yell at people. I believe that they increase my self-control as opposed to suppress my emotions.

I have other symptoms that SSRIs don't help with, but I do feel like they've helped me a lot at being a parent.

Re: Why what we think we know about schizophrenia is wrong

#18
post #6
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think "one flew over the cuckoo's nest" romanticizes mental illness, for me it is about demonizing institutionalization. It pictures the time when mental illness diagnostic was an easy method to put away anyone annoying or inconvenient (the subject really having a mental illness or not made little difference). It talks about institutional cruelty like torture and lobotomy. But then I didn't read the book, jus…

I mostly agree, but I think the movie romanticized the end of institutionalization, making us believe we've progressed "beyond" it, when we merely have people screaming on street corners and sleeping in the gutter. Institutionalization should've been reformed, not all but eliminated (I know it still exists, but only for the most extreme cases).

If someone is not a threat to themselves or others, but has strange beliefs and behaviors, should we really take their freedom away just because we don’t think they are taking care of themselves adequately or we don’t like the sight/sound of them?

As someone with bipolar disorder (very stable since diagnosis and medication) I’m always a bit dismayed when people call for locking ill people up “for their own good.” (Not that you’re necessarily saying that - it’s just something I do see people advocating for sometimes).

I’m in SF and previously lived Tenderloin-adjacent so I’m quite familiar with the unfortunate cycle of mental illness and drug/alcohol abuse from self-medicating. It’s not a pretty sight and I do think we should do everything we can to help these most vulnerable people in society. I’m just not sure taking their liberty is necessarily the best course of action.

Re: Why what we think we know about schizophrenia is wrong

#20

Much, if not all, of mental health is based on theories and assumptions." "It's thought that..." when referring to how medications work. Let's just agree that we all know nothing about mental health.

We know a lot. If there is a comprehensive theory it is that mental disorders and developmental disabilities come in layers. You might have a genetic predisposition to certain problems, have that exacerbated by traumas, but learn how to compensate for them in some ways. You might do badly at certain things or certain situations but if you have support from other people, understand the difficulty, etc. you can do O.K.…

> We know a lot.

Yet we know very little, like, we knew how to make fire before Lavoiser discovered the role of Oxygen in combustion.

The various paradigms we use are approximate, not unlike humor and miasma theories were of some help before we understood physiology and discovered the existence of germs.

The main theories of the 20th century (psychoanalysis and chemical imbalance) have been steadily eroded by research, but are still have far too much importance in clinic.

> You might have a genetic predisposition to certain problems, have that exacerbated by traumas.

Once we understand what genes and genes circuits are involved, and how trauma makes it worse, we'll be getting somewhere.

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