Becoming Dr. Seuss • Hacker News Board

Re: Becoming Dr. Seuss

#11

Post by imglorp » Thu, May 09, 2019, 11:20 AM UTC

RickJWagner wrote: post #2

Dr. Seuss, racist and misogynist (at least according to the author.) I've read and loved several of his books, as have many kids of all kinds. I think it's best to just judge him on his excellent children's books and not flame his memory with today's outrage police.

To our credit, Western culture has shifted in only 50 years from high public acceptance of racism and misogyny to almost none. In that time, we went from Rosa Parks to minority and female politicians, astronauts, SCOTUS judges, etc. We all grew up with Dr Seuss in the former group. I remember hearing the N word plenty of times growing up from my peer group's parents and it's almost gone now. At the time socially conscious people were more concerned with nukes (Green Eggs) and logging (Lorax).

So don't whitewash the history and don't bury the babies with the bathwater, that was him but it wasn't perceived as good or bad at the time.

Now we've shifted from racial tribalism to ideological. This time seems dangerous too.

Re: Becoming Dr. Seuss

#12

Post by empath75 » Thu, May 09, 2019, 11:48 AM UTC

thrower123 wrote: post #6

I did not know he was a Casque and Gauntlet character. Probably would not be now - it's shifted ridiculously to the SJW types, and is incestuous to a degree unimaginable. I still cannot believe that the incredible teaching hospital there is now the Dr. Seuss Medical school.

I find it difficult to believe that anybody still says ‘SJW’ and expects anyone to take them seriously.

Re: Becoming Dr. Seuss

#13

Post by kbutler » Thu, May 09, 2019, 12:44 PM UTC

jklp wrote: post #5

RickJWagner wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought 'nerd' originated with 'Happy Days'. Was it really Dr. Suess?

I doubted this too but a quick wikipedia search proved parent correct https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerd#Etymology

Digging a little deeper into Google N-Grams was enlightening in a different way:

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=nerd%2Cnerds&y...

There are lots of "nerd" occurrences before 1950!

However, looking a bit deeper:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22nerds%22&lr=lang_en&tbs=l...

These occurrences break down into a few categories:

- mis-recognition of "needs" or "herds", etc. - incorrect date assignment - possible foreign words

If you also found this interesting, I guess we both fit in Dr. Seuss's zoo.

Re: Becoming Dr. Seuss

#14

Post by thrower123 » Thu, May 09, 2019, 12:53 PM UTC

empath75 wrote: post #12

thrower123 wrote: post #6

I did not know he was a Casque and Gauntlet character. Probably would not be now - it's shifted ridiculously to the SJW types, and is incestuous to a degree unimaginable. I still cannot believe that the incredible teaching hospital there is now the Dr. Seuss Medical school.

I find it difficult to believe that anybody still says ‘SJW’ and expects anyone to take them seriously.

I guess I could say insufferable self-important activist busybody, but at the time, Social Justice was a hot buzzword that people would claim to be embracing unironically. This was before GamerGate and the general escalation of nastiness on the internet.

Re: Becoming Dr. Seuss

#15

Post by c0vfefe » Thu, May 09, 2019, 1:10 PM UTC

kbutler wrote: post #13

jklp wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubted this too but a quick wikipedia search proved parent correct https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerd#Etymology

Digging a little deeper into Google N-Grams was enlightening in a different way: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=nerd%2Cnerds&y... There are lots of "nerd" occurrences before 1950! However, looking a bit deeper: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22nerds%22&lr=lang_en&tbs=l... These occurrences break down into a few categories: - mis-recognition of "needs" or "herds", etc. - incorrect date assignment - po…

That'll happen with most N-gram searches.

Re: Becoming Dr. Seuss

#16

Post by c0vfefe » Thu, May 09, 2019, 1:13 PM UTC

imglorp wrote: post #11

RickJWagner wrote: post #2

Dr. Seuss, racist and misogynist (at least according to the author.) I've read and loved several of his books, as have many kids of all kinds. I think it's best to just judge him on his excellent children's books and not flame his memory with today's outrage police.

To our credit, Western culture has shifted in only 50 years from high public acceptance of racism and misogyny to almost none. In that time, we went from Rosa Parks to minority and female politicians, astronauts, SCOTUS judges, etc. We all grew up with Dr Seuss in the former group. I remember hearing the N word plenty of times growing up from my peer group's parents and it's almost gone now. At the time socially cons…

> nukes (Green Eggs)

Think you mean the Butter Battle.

Re: Becoming Dr. Seuss

#17

Post by simonebrunozzi » Thu, May 09, 2019, 2:07 PM UTC

I grew up in Italy, left in 2008 at age ~30, and been living in the US since 2012. I've only barely heard about "Dr. Seuss", and had no idea who he was.

I've now read the article and it seems that he's been an important figure for many Americans, and possibly for many people around the world (not much in Italy).

In the article a multi-faceted figure emerges, as if you wouldn't be able to guess much of it just by reading his books (e.g. he didn't have kids; and considered writing for kids a step down in his career).

I find it always fascinating to "discover" an artist (writer, painter, musician, etc) by knowing his biography and reading about his personality, and then to look again at his artwork in a very different light. I guess it's the case for the ones who've read his books and will have a chance to read his biography.

Re: Becoming Dr. Seuss

#18

Post by imglorp » Thu, May 09, 2019, 2:19 PM UTC

c0vfefe wrote: post #16

imglorp wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To our credit, Western culture has shifted in only 50 years from high public acceptance of racism and misogyny to almost none. In that time, we went from Rosa Parks to minority and female politicians, astronauts, SCOTUS judges, etc. We all grew up with Dr Seuss in the former group. I remember hearing the N word plenty of times growing up from my peer group's parents and it's almost gone now. At the time socially cons…

> nukes (Green Eggs) Think you mean the Butter Battle.

Ah, both maybe.

I can't find a reference, but I'd heard somewhere Sam-I-Am was a thin metaphor for Uncle Sam, trying to convince the public to accept green (ie nuclear glowing) eggs and ham as normal and acceptable in exchange for the benefits of nuclear bombs and power.

Re: Becoming Dr. Seuss

#19

Post by c0vfefe » Thu, May 09, 2019, 2:32 PM UTC

imglorp wrote: post #18

c0vfefe wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nukes (Green Eggs) Think you mean the Butter Battle.

Ah, both maybe. I can't find a reference, but I'd heard somewhere Sam-I-Am was a thin metaphor for Uncle Sam, trying to convince the public to accept green (ie nuclear glowing) eggs and ham as normal and acceptable in exchange for the benefits of nuclear bombs and power.

Perhaps, but the existence of apocryphal Seuss stories seems likely as well.

Re: Becoming Dr. Seuss

#20

Post by stronglikedan » Thu, May 09, 2019, 2:34 PM UTC

empath75 wrote: post #12

thrower123 wrote: post #6

I did not know he was a Casque and Gauntlet character. Probably would not be now - it's shifted ridiculously to the SJW types, and is incestuous to a degree unimaginable. I still cannot believe that the incredible teaching hospital there is now the Dr. Seuss Medical school.

I find it difficult to believe that anybody still says ‘SJW’ and expects anyone to take them seriously.

Why not? It's an apt, succinct description of a very specific type of person with a very specific agenda, which lends credible context to the reasoning behind the situations in which they're involved. I find it difficult to believe that anyone still takes SJWs seriously.