ProtonMail is dropping support for Internet Explorer 11 • Hacker News Board

Re: ProtonMail is dropping support for Internet Explorer 11

#11

Post by mbell » Tue, May 07, 2019, 2:42 PM UTC

jsnell wrote: post #8

jumbopapa wrote: post #2

I'd be pretty shocked if any ProtonMail users used IE.

It's the first bullet point in their reasons for dropping the support. About 1% of their users are on IE.

On average IE 11 is around 2% in the US, obviously it'll vary based on the type of site but I would have expected ProtonMail to be even lower.

Re: ProtonMail is dropping support for Internet Explorer 11

#12

Post by anon777778 » Tue, May 07, 2019, 2:42 PM UTC

Supermighty wrote: post #4

I understand them wanting to discontinue browsers that have very low usage and have discontinued support from Microsoft, but I can't help but feel a little sad about the narrowing browser engine ecosystem.

Last major update for IE11 was like 6 years ago? Supporting anything related to this browser is painful and is blocking multiple new web features (or even not so new).

I would love to use CSS Grid without thinking whether it will work however it happens that IE11 has only partial (and buggy) support for it.

I believe that supporting IE11 blocks innovation.

Re: ProtonMail is dropping support for Internet Explorer 11

#13

Post by mbell » Tue, May 07, 2019, 2:47 PM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #9

Supermighty wrote: post #4

I understand them wanting to discontinue browsers that have very low usage and have discontinued support from Microsoft, but I can't help but feel a little sad about the narrowing browser engine ecosystem.

Exactly how many browser engines do we need? There's currently Blink(Chrome|Edge|Brave), Gecko(Firefox), and WebKit(Safari and various OSS browsers). With web technology standards, it doesn't really make sense that there would be that much competition, so having 3 competing engines seems sufficient to me.

I'm sure some won't like this comment, but there are only two that matter: Chrome and Safari. Firefox's share is about the same as IE 11 (2.0 -> 2.5%).

Re: ProtonMail is dropping support for Internet Explorer 11

#14

Post by ravenstine » Tue, May 07, 2019, 2:51 PM UTC

the1pato wrote: post #10

ravenstine wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly how many browser engines do we need? There's currently Blink(Chrome|Edge|Brave), Gecko(Firefox), and WebKit(Safari and various OSS browsers). With web technology standards, it doesn't really make sense that there would be that much competition, so having 3 competing engines seems sufficient to me.

WebKit* Webpack is a bundler.

LOL

Thanks for the correction.

Re: ProtonMail is dropping support for Internet Explorer 11

#15

Post by Insanity » Tue, May 07, 2019, 2:52 PM UTC

mbell wrote: post #13

ravenstine wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly how many browser engines do we need? There's currently Blink(Chrome|Edge|Brave), Gecko(Firefox), and WebKit(Safari and various OSS browsers). With web technology standards, it doesn't really make sense that there would be that much competition, so having 3 competing engines seems sufficient to me.

I'm sure some won't like this comment, but there are only two that matter: Chrome and Safari. Firefox's share is about the same as IE 11 (2.0 -> 2.5%).

Where do you get those numbers? This indicates FF to be around 10% still:

https://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?opt...

EDIT: This is on laptop/desktop. Without the device filter it's about 5%. But then again, I don't think it comes by default on any Mobile OS, so they have a disadvantage there. Plus non power users of their smartphone (like me) might not change the browser there.

Re: ProtonMail is dropping support for Internet Explorer 11

#16

Post by ravenstine » Tue, May 07, 2019, 2:57 PM UTC

mbell wrote: post #13

ravenstine wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly how many browser engines do we need? There's currently Blink(Chrome|Edge|Brave), Gecko(Firefox), and WebKit(Safari and various OSS browsers). With web technology standards, it doesn't really make sense that there would be that much competition, so having 3 competing engines seems sufficient to me.

I'm sure some won't like this comment, but there are only two that matter: Chrome and Safari. Firefox's share is about the same as IE 11 (2.0 -> 2.5%).

That's may be true, but that doesn't mean Firefox/Gecko isn't a viable alternative just because fewer people are choosing to use it. In fact, I think it demonstrates my point that people don't need competing browser engines that badly because they aren't radically different. There was a time where IE was hemorrhaging users to Firefox, but that was because Firefox legitimately did things better than IE/Trident. At this point, however, our expectations of what a web browser should do are fairly solidified, so people are likely going to choose whatever is being marketed to them the most and comes installed on many Android phones by default.

Re: ProtonMail is dropping support for Internet Explorer 11

#17

Post by ahelwer » Tue, May 07, 2019, 3:04 PM UTC

Maybe I'll be able to reach other ProtonMail users here - does anyone else have persistent issues logging in to the web client? I use Firefox, LastPass, and Authy for 2FA. I have to try 6-7 times to log in every time, it drives me nuts. If it weren't for the mobile app I would have dumped this service long ago (for which I pay $50/year). This is the only site where I have issues logging in.

Re: ProtonMail is dropping support for Internet Explorer 11

#18

Post by tux1968 » Tue, May 07, 2019, 3:06 PM UTC

realusername wrote: post #3

jumbopapa wrote: post #2

I'd be pretty shocked if any ProtonMail users used IE.

Yes that seems a pretty odd combination, you want more secure email but using IE11 at the same time?

Wouldn't be surprising to find that security conscious people are more apt to alter their user agent string or have a plugin that rotates it often to counter fingerprinting. There are probably fewer genuine IE11 users than what is being detected.

Re: ProtonMail is dropping support for Internet Explorer 11

#19

Post by Crinus » Tue, May 07, 2019, 3:11 PM UTC

anon777778 wrote: post #12

Supermighty wrote: post #4

I understand them wanting to discontinue browsers that have very low usage and have discontinued support from Microsoft, but I can't help but feel a little sad about the narrowing browser engine ecosystem.

Last major update for IE11 was like 6 years ago? Supporting anything related to this browser is painful and is blocking multiple new web features (or even not so new). I would love to use CSS Grid without thinking whether it will work however it happens that IE11 has only partial (and buggy) support for it. I believe that supporting IE11 blocks innovation.

What sort of features does a mail client need though? Up until recently i was using SquirrelMail and only stopped because my webhost removed it (likely because there hasn't been an official release for a few years now... which is weird since there is progress in the code repository, just not official releases). In case you haven't used it, SqurrelMail barely uses anything beyond a couple of frames (normal ones, not iframes), a table of links for the mail and a few simple controls (search, delete, mark as read, etc) with some very little (and optional) javascript for selecting all mails and stuff like that. And i really didn't miss anything using it, whereas every other web-based mail client i've seen is both slower and more annoying to use.

So, what is the use case here really, what sort of features IE11 does not provide that you'd need to implement a web-based mail client?

(note that i'm not trying to promote IE11 here, i just do not understand why IE11 would block implementing any feature to the point of dropping it entirely)

Re: ProtonMail is dropping support for Internet Explorer 11

#20

Post by keawade » Tue, May 07, 2019, 3:14 PM UTC

ahelwer wrote: post #17

Maybe I'll be able to reach other ProtonMail users here - does anyone else have persistent issues logging in to the web client? I use Firefox, LastPass, and Authy for 2FA. I have to try 6-7 times to log in every time, it drives me nuts. If it weren't for the mobile app I would have dumped this service long ago (for which I pay $50/year). This is the only site where I have issues logging in.

I've been using ProtonMail for about a year and I've never had an issue logging in. The web client is the primary interface I use.