Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU's Tusk warns of risks in rise of U.S. tech giants

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 75 posts

Re: EU's Tusk warns of risks in rise of U.S. tech giants

#11

Post by tootahe45 »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #9

I'm not sure why the comments here are unusually toxic, but I think it is good to hear this. The EU tech sector has an opportunity to create customer-first text services with a strong focus on privacy and data portability, but it'll need some concessions and some support. There's no reason why the EU cannot replicate at least some of the success the US has had in the tech market, and even internally it has a large en…

There's no reason Europeans can't just do it from a place where they get better access capital and a more business-friendly environment (unless the EU tries to stop this by creating a 'safe' website list like China, or penalizing US companies in other ways). One problem with firewalling Google, Facebook, is that the fines bring in more money than European tech.

Re: EU's Tusk warns of risks in rise of U.S. tech giants

#12

Post by akersten »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #9

I'm not sure why the comments here are unusually toxic, but I think it is good to hear this. The EU tech sector has an opportunity to create customer-first text services with a strong focus on privacy and data portability, but it'll need some concessions and some support. There's no reason why the EU cannot replicate at least some of the success the US has had in the tech market, and even internally it has a large en…

I don't think it's toxic to criticize the regulatory practices that have created the business environment that the article laments. Actually I think it's more than fair to do so. "Blunt" may be a better word to describe the comments here.

Re: EU's Tusk warns of risks in rise of U.S. tech giants

#13

Post by ajuc »

akersten wrote: post #12
ComputerGuru wrote: post #9

I'm not sure why the comments here are unusually toxic, but I think it is good to hear this. The EU tech sector has an opportunity to create customer-first text services with a strong focus on privacy and data portability, but it'll need some concessions and some support. There's no reason why the EU cannot replicate at least some of the success the US has had in the tech market, and even internally it has a large en…

I don't think it's toxic to criticize the regulatory practices that have created the business environment that the article laments. Actually I think it's more than fair to do so. "Blunt" may be a better word to describe the comments here.

In which way does regulation create the business environment that the article laments?

EU was always behind in internet stuff, even when there was no regulation.

Re: EU's Tusk warns of risks in rise of U.S. tech giants

#14

Post by adventured »

ajuc wrote: post #13
akersten wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's toxic to criticize the regulatory practices that have created the business environment that the article laments. Actually I think it's more than fair to do so. "Blunt" may be a better word to describe the comments here.

In which way does regulation create the business environment that the article laments? EU was always behind in internet stuff, even when there was no regulation.

Indeed, Europe has been behind the US in tech since WW2. The lead the US acquired in the following ~20 years has proven impossible to overcome. It spawned so many various advantages that compound and build on each other (to say nothing of the single market of enormous size).

If they knew what they were doing, they'd start by massively increasing the pay for software developers across Western Europe. Software is why the US dominates global tech. 1.25 million software developers earning a median of $105,000 in salary.

Software is why Japan wasn't able to dominate tech, despite that being the near universal thought - that it was the inevitable outcome - in the late 1980s and early 1990s. They couldn't do software well, it's the difference between Apple doing the iPod and Sony flailing after the Walkman. It's also why Apple murdered Nokia, it's the software: the smartphone is about the software, not the hardware (which always drifts towards commodity, low value, low margin; Apple was focused on building a device that could effectively run serious software programs). The rise of Microsoft from 1975 to its eventual position as global tech titan by the time Win95 came out, charts the course of the US solidifying its position in tech via software margins. Most of the value gradually shifted from hardware to software, from the 1970s to the 1990s. The immensely profitable nature of most software pours an endless deluge of profit into the US tech machine (which is then used to keep expanding it and buying up global competition).

US cloud dominance is similarly all about the software, rather than hardware in the cloud (again, low margin, low value). It's why Europe can't compete with AWS. Imagine if the US tech dominance were dependent on competing in server hardware, black rectangle smartphones or PC boxes. The US would have entirely gotten its brains stomped in by now. Instead, the US moved upstream and got all the profit in the tech industry: it's all in the software margins.

It's the software, Europe. Pay your software developers a lot more if you want to compete.

Re: EU's Tusk warns of risks in rise of U.S. tech giants

#15

Post by rasz »

shmerl wrote: post #5

EU officials are totally helping things with Article 13 and Co.

For reference, _his party_ was pushing Article 13 in EU Parliament. September 12 everyone from PO voted for censorship:

  Michał Boni (PO)
  Jerzy Buzek (PO)
  Danuta Hübner (PO)
  Danuta Jazłowiecka (PO)
  Agnieszka Kozłowska-Rajewicz (PO)
  Barbara Kudrycka (PO)
  Janusz Lewandowski (PO)
  Elżbieta Łukacjiewska (PO)
  Jan Olbrycht (PO)
  Julia Pitera (PO)
  Marek Plura (PO)
  Dariusz Rosati (PO)
  Adam Szejnfeld (PO)
  Róża Thun Und Hohenstein (PO)
  Jarosław Wałęsa (PO)
  Bogdan Wenta (PO)
  Bogdan Zdrojewski (PO)
  Tadeusz Zwiefka (PO)
Final April vote pro censorship:

  Danuta Hübner (PO)
  Agnieszka Kozłowska-Rajewicz (PO)
  Barbara Kudrycka (PO)
  Julia Pitera (PO)
  Bogdan Zdrojewski (PO)
  Tadeusz Zwiefka (PO)

Re: EU's Tusk warns of risks in rise of U.S. tech giants

#16

Post by NotSammyHagar »

adventured wrote: post #14
ajuc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which way does regulation create the business environment that the article laments? EU was always behind in internet stuff, even when there was no regulation.

Indeed, Europe has been behind the US in tech since WW2. The lead the US acquired in the following ~20 years has proven impossible to overcome. It spawned so many various advantages that compound and build on each other (to say nothing of the single market of enormous size). If they knew what they were doing, they'd start by massively increasing the pay for software developers across Western Europe. Software is why t…

That arc of software history is recognizable to me. There are excellent devs all over and pretty much every large company has divisions with european offices with devs. There's something about the business of starting large software based enterprises that seems to work better in the us though.

Also, I think China is coming for the us software industry's dominance. If they can figure out how to get around the worry of chinese govt access to external to china customers, chinese software companies could out compete the us, just like microsoft with windows beat out ibm maybe.

Re: EU's Tusk warns of risks in rise of U.S. tech giants

#17

Post by outlace »

mtgx wrote: post #10
Mirioron wrote: post #4

Maybe the EU and European countries could've fostered an environment where tech companies could've been successful as well?

Maybe if the EU adopted China's model of tricking U.S. giants to come there for the "huge market," then steal/coerce giving away their tech to the local small companies that can become billion-dollar giants a few years later, and then kicking the big U.S. companies out of the country or making it almost impossible for them to compete locally would've been a better strategy for the EU, too. Instead, the EU has allowed…

But it also seems that the US produces new big tech companies in new sectors whereas Europe appears not to. Sure maybe there aren’t any viable Google or Facebook competitors, but the US produces Stripe, Airbnb, uber, etc.

Re: EU's Tusk warns of risks in rise of U.S. tech giants

#19

Post by wazoox »

EU officials don't understand the current trade war. The US keeps coercing EU companies, buying them out by force (Alstom), pushing them out of markets (Iran), using extortion against EU banks, generally pressuring the EU in the position of an obedient vassal; but the EU doesn't get it, at all. That's a tragedy (for us Europeans).

Eu officials are completely bought into the free market ideology and "gentle commerce". Nowadays strategic companies are even sold to the Chinese, because "free markets". Morons. EU is inept, useless.

It's quite saying that Russia, with its limited means, limited population and GDP inferior to Italy, successfully kept its digital independence (mostly).

Re: EU's Tusk warns of risks in rise of U.S. tech giants

#20

Post by bjelkeman-again »

adventured wrote: post #14
ajuc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which way does regulation create the business environment that the article laments? EU was always behind in internet stuff, even when there was no regulation.

Indeed, Europe has been behind the US in tech since WW2. The lead the US acquired in the following ~20 years has proven impossible to overcome. It spawned so many various advantages that compound and build on each other (to say nothing of the single market of enormous size). If they knew what they were doing, they'd start by massively increasing the pay for software developers across Western Europe. Software is why t…

It isn't really about software developers pay IMHO. I think it is about: a relatively poorly capitalised investment community (relative to the US); relatively (to the US) inexperienced VCs/accelerators; a splintered market with a variety of regulators, languages, rules, currencies, cultures etc; more conservative approach (not left/right politics) in politics and in business.
Post reply on HN