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Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

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Re: Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

#11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This feels like "I can't define agile, but I know it when I see it"...or just a wonderful example of the No True Scotsman fallacy. Maybe so, but you are also describing Agile as if it can be anything a company wants it to be, which effectively makes Agile meaningless. I've worked with clients that have a waterfall-like development process, "standups" that are both status-reporting to management and on the spot plan…

Are they following the Agile Manifesto? https://agilemanifesto.org/ If so, then it is. If not, then it isn't.

How can anyone put "Individuals and interactions over processes and tools" while also using processes and tools?

Maybe agile is apostate waterfall, and we might as well do waterfall.

Re: Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

#12
post #9

I'm ready for what comes next after Agile. I've been through about 5 Agile shops now. I would say one of the 5 ran Agile well, the rest were a mess that just makes it frustrating for everyone. What we mostly have now is watered down agile.. the worst bits of agile like never actually "designing" anything, but we don't really have any of the good bits of the older management processes left over. I don't really want fu…

I regret that I have but only one upvote to give for your comment.

Re: Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

#13
Well lets read further in...

So the article indicates and blames executives from short-circuiting Agile. And the article says that the best Agile is democratic?

That sounds like a worker cooperative, not a private corp, LLC, S or even a C corp.

Re: Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

#14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they following the Agile Manifesto? https://agilemanifesto.org/ If so, then it is. If not, then it isn't.

How can anyone put "Individuals and interactions over processes and tools" while also using processes and tools? Maybe agile is apostate waterfall, and we might as well do waterfall.

Because, as it says, they still value processes and tools.

Re: Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

#15
I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding of agile. Agile isn't Scrum, agile isn't Kanban, Agile isn't even really the manifesto. Agile is, like lean manufacturing (one of its inspirations), based around one really simple concept: the workers know the most about what they are doing and should be leading the charge on what they are doing.

If your agile ceremonies end up being all about giving management control -- if your story points are used to tell management how much work is getting done, if management is using the daily standup to make sure people are on-task instead of being about commitments. If agile is just another way for management to exert control over software development, rather than being about ceding control to software developers, it won't "work."

This is the same thing you see with lean/TPS, by the way. The joint GM/Toyota venture showed that without committing to these principles, adopting parts of TPS don't really deliver the full benefits.[1] As one UAW team leader said about why working for Toyota was preferable to GM:

> The GM system relied on authority. People with rank, the managers, ruled regardless of their competence or the validity of what they were saying. It was basically a military hierarchy. At NUMMI rank doesn't mean a damn thing. Standardized work means we all work the objectively best way to do the job, and everyone does it that way. I might make some minor adjustments because of my height, for example, but I follow the procedure as laid out because it makes sense. We're more like a special forces unit than the regular military hierarchy. Management's delegated responsibility to the people who do the work, and that gives workers a sense of pride in their jobs.

If management is asking the developers to adopt agile, but they aren't doing anything to adopt agile themselves, good luck.

1) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/245862516_Democrati...

Re: Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

#16
post #3

> Middle managers can also miss the importance of co-locating teams by bringing together designers, engineers, product managers and content specialists in the same physical space. The most highly functioning agile teams aren’t just at the same location or on the same floor: they share the same table. I can't refute this strongly enough. Managers should do their jobs and manage. Doesn't matter where team members are l…

I couldn't agree with you more. At $CURRENT_PLACE we preach an iterative spiral that I believe is appropriate for the sort of embedded safety tech we work on that has built in time delays for testing at (for ex) UL or whatever NRTL is the NRTL of the day. Whether we're succeeding at differentiating it from serial waterfall is debatable. I think we are because marketing travels to see us every other week and they're meaningful yet we avoid what seem to me like make work bits of agile and scrum. Absent the imposed processes everyone works closely enough together that we can finish each others sentences most of the time and most of us appear look forward to coming into a workplace where the manager is absent half the time but because his most important role is to his bosses from interfering with us and to clear out the obstacles in our way it works pretty well.

Re: Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

#17
post #9

I'm ready for what comes next after Agile. I've been through about 5 Agile shops now. I would say one of the 5 ran Agile well, the rest were a mess that just makes it frustrating for everyone. What we mostly have now is watered down agile.. the worst bits of agile like never actually "designing" anything, but we don't really have any of the good bits of the older management processes left over. I don't really want fu…

Scrum != agile. You don't need sprints to be agile. If sprints aren't working for you and your team, then stop doing sprints. If your team can't decide to stop doing sprints, then you're not leading your own agile process and you're not really doing agile.

Re: Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

#18
post #9

I'm ready for what comes next after Agile. I've been through about 5 Agile shops now. I would say one of the 5 ran Agile well, the rest were a mess that just makes it frustrating for everyone. What we mostly have now is watered down agile.. the worst bits of agile like never actually "designing" anything, but we don't really have any of the good bits of the older management processes left over. I don't really want fu…

>So the companies always had a successful exit even if the codebase passed onto the acquiring company or to the public investors had major issues.. so at least in my experience there's no feedback loop to correct the issues.

In a sense, it sounds like there is nothing to correct! Would moving more slowly and deliberately have improved the exit, or worsened it? Perhaps code quality has only a tenuous link to business outcomes.

Re: Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

#19
Dave Thomas, one of the original authors of the Agile Manifesto [1] wrote an article called "Time to Kill Agile" [2] a few years ago (which he subsequently re-titled "Agile is Dead"). He has some good insight on how Agile (the methodology) got to be something very different from what they intended. Originally they were trying to break away from a rigid methodology, not introduce a whole new one. Unfortunately, if you don't codify something into a set of rules, it's pretty hard to get people to follow it, and it wasn't long before "experts" were building formal processes out of it. I've never seen it work well, and the more ardent the adherents are, the worse it seems to get. I think every team needs to find the approach that works best for them to itemize, prioritize and communicate progress. In my experience the two most important aspects of moving a project along are simply communicating what needs to be done and recognizing effort.

[1] http://agilemanifesto.org/

[2] https://pragdave.me/blog/2014/03/04/time-to-kill-agile.html

Re: Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

#20
post #15

I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding of agile. Agile isn't Scrum, agile isn't Kanban, Agile isn't even really the manifesto. Agile is, like lean manufacturing (one of its inspirations), based around one really simple concept: the workers know the most about what they are doing and should be leading the charge on what they are doing. If your agile ceremonies end up being all about giving management control -…

> If your agile ceremonies end up being all about giving management control -- if your story points are used to tell management how much work is getting done, if management is using the daily standup to make sure people are on-task instead of being about commitments. If agile is just another way for management to exert control over software development, rather than being about ceding control to software developers, it won't "work."

This is exactly what it has become though. It's not about developers, it's about managers and product owners. It's about numbers in a spreadsheet that managers can show upper managers.

Management has sucked the life out of agile. It's become this rigid metric producing muck that gets in the way.

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