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Researchers propose a new interdisciplinary subfield called “Machine Behaviour”

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11–20 of 54 posts

Re: Researchers propose a new interdisciplinary subfield called “Machine Behaviour”

#11
I get worried when I see something like this.

I'm inclined to believe a substantial number of researchers are currently being deliberately fuzzy about what "AI" can and cannot do. Why not call it algorithms and statistics? I think lay-people have a very skewed understanding of what has already been achieved through AI. They may also not understand the word algorithms but at least it doesn't make them think of Skynet. For example, if you asked a person on the street whether there exists an "artificially intelligent supercomputer" somewhere that could help you plan all aspects of a small but entertaining dinner party, they would probably say yes. They imagine that you could just ask IBM Watson to help out, and he'd tell you what to do. This is completely false. "AI" systems are very fragile, and yes, we could build something that plans dinner parties, but we'd have to start over if we needed to plan a kid's birthday party instead. It's very far from strong AI. Ten years ago when it was mostly IBM telling lies, the end result was a couple of billion dollars wasted by hapless healthcare conglomerates. That's already bad. But now we have people from MIT, Stanford, Harvard, Yale, and more embracing the term AI and relying on unfounded hype to push for funding. It would be much less sexy if we called it "Facebook/Google/etc enable unfair/discriminatory advertising by combining intensive data collection with logistic regression, sometimes in multiple layers, and with some graph algorithms thrown in". But it would be a much better starting point for a well-informed debate. I'm not trying to minimize the importance of algorithms in our world, but a healthy discussion should be based on a sound understanding of the facts on the ground, and AI hype is not helping with that. I strongly prefer the less hyperbolic terminology adopted by someone like Aaron Roth at UPenn, e.g. see the blurb for "The Ethical Algorithm: The Science of Socially Aware Algorithm Design".

Bonus AI rant: For the celebration of the new MIT Schwarzman College of Computing, which is a huge expansion of the arguably most important computer science department in the world, there was a discussion panel on AI consisting of MIT President Reif, Henry Kissinger (War criminal?, Theranos board member, wannabe AI expert), Tom Friedman (columnist of limited substance), and Stephen Schwarzman (business man, coined the "increased taxes on carried interest are like Hitler's invasion of Poland" analogy, brought the dough). How the heck is that the inaugural panel!?!

Re: Researchers propose a new interdisciplinary subfield called “Machine Behaviour”

#12

I get worried when I see something like this. I'm inclined to believe a substantial number of researchers are currently being deliberately fuzzy about what "AI" can and cannot do. Why not call it algorithms and statistics? I think lay-people have a very skewed understanding of what has already been achieved through AI. They may also not understand the word algorithms but at least it doesn't make them think of Skynet.…

most actual researchers are entirely sick of the hype and are desperately trying to correct it, to no avail. i think laypeople just have a strong desire to get overexcited about AI and nothing is going to stop them.

Re: Researchers propose a new interdisciplinary subfield called “Machine Behaviour”

#13
post #9

It's not clear to me how this "field" of study is any different from existing academic analyses of automation or computing. AI doesn't change what computers do; it affects only how it's done. The problems inherent in automation are as old as windmills, falling water, and certainly electricity. Sure, a few modern fields are affected more than others, but improving voice recognition or visual object identification comp…

>AI doesn't change what computers do, if affects only how it's done. Except AI is very much changing how things are done as well as what computers do. Image recognition, natural language processing, self piloted vehicles, these are all novel applications for machines which carry significant real world risks to life and property. Moreover, AI in it's current state is a complex black box with unpredictable outputs for…

> Image recognition, natural language processing, self piloted vehicles

Obviously none of these are AI and I don't see how you're helping anything by insinuating they are.

Re: Researchers propose a new interdisciplinary subfield called “Machine Behaviour”

#14

I get worried when I see something like this. I'm inclined to believe a substantial number of researchers are currently being deliberately fuzzy about what "AI" can and cannot do. Why not call it algorithms and statistics? I think lay-people have a very skewed understanding of what has already been achieved through AI. They may also not understand the word algorithms but at least it doesn't make them think of Skynet.…

The point of the article is that we need a science to address the plain fact that the behavior of modern AI and machine learning systems, especially neural networks, is unpredictable and incomprehensible given the current state of knowledge. It is more about addressing the limitations of AI than hyping it.

Re: Researchers propose a new interdisciplinary subfield called “Machine Behaviour”

#15
My highly cynical take as someone researching in ML is that all these interdisciplinary AI studies, AI policy, etc are mostly grifters trying to get in on the gold-rush.

What has AI policy produced so far, really? Algorithm analysis and safety research is done on the algorithmic side, not on the policy side. Every time I have read an AI policy paper, it has been listings of desirable properties with absolutely no input on how to make any real steps towards them. In the meantime, realities of algorithm driven mass surveillance and censorship is moving ahead at a rapid pace.

Possible conclusion 1: We just need way more AI policy research.

Possible conclusion 2: AI policy is done by the wrong people and deep algorithmic understanding is a pre-requisite.

Possible conclusion 3: Current AI policy is just used as a fig-leaf by tech companies who hire a few policy essay-writers without substance. The lack of progress in that area is a feature, not bug.

Not mutually exclusive, not exhaustive. Feel free to point to valuable policy research.

Re: Researchers propose a new interdisciplinary subfield called “Machine Behaviour”

#16
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>AI doesn't change what computers do, if affects only how it's done. Except AI is very much changing how things are done as well as what computers do. Image recognition, natural language processing, self piloted vehicles, these are all novel applications for machines which carry significant real world risks to life and property. Moreover, AI in it's current state is a complex black box with unpredictable outputs for…

> Image recognition, natural language processing, self piloted vehicles Obviously none of these are AI and I don't see how you're helping anything by insinuating they are.

Effective policymaking takes into account both the precise technical terminology and the real-world usage of a concept. Otherwise, it wouldn't be able to tackle any issue for which popular usage doesn't take into account technical nuance, leaving those fields in a lawless limbo.

Re: Researchers propose a new interdisciplinary subfield called “Machine Behaviour”

#17
Is there a rigorous definition of “machine behavior” as a research field?

I can see how a good-enough marriage of ML/NN to classic symbolic AI could yield a system capable of higher-order, intention-based “behavior” in complex circumstances. But we’re still a long way from achieving that, as far as I know.

Re: Researchers propose a new interdisciplinary subfield called “Machine Behaviour”

#18
post #16
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Image recognition, natural language processing, self piloted vehicles Obviously none of these are AI and I don't see how you're helping anything by insinuating they are.

Effective policymaking takes into account both the precise technical terminology and the real-world usage of a concept. Otherwise, it wouldn't be able to tackle any issue for which popular usage doesn't take into account technical nuance, leaving those fields in a lawless limbo.

Sure, just make it illegal to say you're selling AI technology. Problem solved. I'm absolutely fine with the use of the term in the context of regulating its abuse.

Real-world usage would imply people use it in a meaningful way. I have yet to see any evidence of this.

Re: Researchers propose a new interdisciplinary subfield called “Machine Behaviour”

#19

My highly cynical take as someone researching in ML is that all these interdisciplinary AI studies, AI policy, etc are mostly grifters trying to get in on the gold-rush. What has AI policy produced so far, really? Algorithm analysis and safety research is done on the algorithmic side, not on the policy side. Every time I have read an AI policy paper, it has been listings of desirable properties with absolutely no inp…

a common pattern I see in papers written by people on the technical side is:

"The correct way of ensuring algorithmic fairness is X" where X is something they already happened to work on.

In various papers X could be robust optimization, differential privacy, causal inference, adversarial training, etc. The papers are mostly good, actually, but it's sort of putting the cart before the horse.

I think there might be legitimate value in having a bunch of lawyers, sociologists, and philosophers set a target more-or-less in ignorance, and let the people on the technical side try to hit it.

Of course even better would be interdisciplinary collaboration but that's hard, there aren't many incentives in its favor (where do you publish? any given venue is worthless to half of the authors). and it requires humility on the part of everyone involved.

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