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Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

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Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

#11

Post by dblotsky »

wildmusings wrote: post #3

This is very deceptive. Under this methodology, people too poor to be called “middle class” in the US would be called middle class or higher in the other countries. Note how much higher the median income in the US is than in any other very large country (UK, Germany, France). There is no doubt the US is more unequal, but absolute wealth for the vast majority is higher.

It’s unfair for many other reasons as well. In the US more of that income might go to services that are cheaper in other countries (e.g. healthcare, education).

So, what looks like a higher number (even adjusted for PPP) might still be lower in practice.

Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

#13

Post by dblotsky »

wildmusings wrote: post #10
friday99 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The graph isn't about absolute levels, but income distribution. The point I think they are trying to make is that higher total income countries tend to have a more equal income distribution. The US doesn't fit that trend, though also some of the lower total income countries such as the Czech Republic have more equal distribution as well.

It’s incredibly deceptive because not only is almost everyone in the US wealthier than their counterparts in the distribution in Europe, but they have much higher purchasing power due to much lower prices.

But they might also spend more of that money on things that are free in Europe.

Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

#14

Post by wildmusings »

ixtli wrote: post #5
wildmusings wrote: post #3

This is very deceptive. Under this methodology, people too poor to be called “middle class” in the US would be called middle class or higher in the other countries. Note how much higher the median income in the US is than in any other very large country (UK, Germany, France). There is no doubt the US is more unequal, but absolute wealth for the vast majority is higher.

Fair point but I think you can make the same claim if you only compare to countries of equivalent "first world" status. EDIT: It is still a potentially deceptive visualization though.

What I said holds true when comparing to all of the major European powers too. The only countries that exceed or even come close to US per capita are small, homogenous countries with niche economic specialties or resource wealth.

Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

#15

Post by akhilcacharya »

crushcrashcrush wrote: post #8

I have a real, honest to goodness question. I live in the Bay Area. I make $200,000 a year. I just had a mini-exit where I netted about $300K after taxes. I still rent for $2700/month. I don't want to buy an overpriced home in the bay in the suburbs (I wish we had for-sale condos like Toronto everywhere... still don't know why) I do well. I'm 32. I'm on an upwards path. But I don't feel upper class. I feel middle cla…

I make a lot less than that and my rent is more than that now...

I’m also 10 years younger.

Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

#16

Post by acchow »

dblotsky wrote: post #13
wildmusings wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s incredibly deceptive because not only is almost everyone in the US wealthier than their counterparts in the distribution in Europe, but they have much higher purchasing power due to much lower prices.

But they might also spend more of that money on things that are free in Europe.

There should be data available for distributions of income including government transfers. But I would expect that the median for US would still be faring much better than the median for France.

Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

#17

Post by blissofbeing »

crushcrashcrush wrote: post #8

I have a real, honest to goodness question. I live in the Bay Area. I make $200,000 a year. I just had a mini-exit where I netted about $300K after taxes. I still rent for $2700/month. I don't want to buy an overpriced home in the bay in the suburbs (I wish we had for-sale condos like Toronto everywhere... still don't know why) I do well. I'm 32. I'm on an upwards path. But I don't feel upper class. I feel middle cla…

If the money you make is tied the hours you work, probably not. But once you figure out ways to divorce the two you'll probably feel more like you are "killing it."

Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

#18

Post by ghobs91 »

crushcrashcrush wrote: post #8

I have a real, honest to goodness question. I live in the Bay Area. I make $200,000 a year. I just had a mini-exit where I netted about $300K after taxes. I still rent for $2700/month. I don't want to buy an overpriced home in the bay in the suburbs (I wish we had for-sale condos like Toronto everywhere... still don't know why) I do well. I'm 32. I'm on an upwards path. But I don't feel upper class. I feel middle cla…

Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but I found it strange that rather than googling "middle class income range SF", you chose to post this rambling humble brag comment.

Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

#19

Post by drocer88 »

Top 20 congressional districts by income are Democratic. Proof : https://finance.yahoo.com/news/midterms-one-party-controls-w...

When the alternative is an "opposition" party that is suffering from "affluenza" , it's unlikely real fixes will happen anytime soon.

Re: Rich countries tend to have a bigger middle-class, except the USA

#20

Post by wildmusings »

ixtli wrote: post #4

My intuition about this as someone who grew up in America and has traveled internationally quite a bit is that nowhere else on earth are the middle classes so convinced that one day they will be "millionaires" than here. This causes them to act against their own best interests. (This was observed by Engels long ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consciousness )

Would you rather be richer and have more buying power in absolute terms, or just make sure the fellow next door doesn’t have more than you?

This graph is misleading. It talks about middle class as a percent of national median income, which means large numbers of people counted as lower-class in the US would be counted as middle-class if they lived in Europe and made the same income.

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