New scientific device creates electricity from snowfall • Hacker News Board

Re: New scientific device creates electricity from snowfall

#11

Post by jerf » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 2:18 PM UTC

cogman10 wrote: post #8

fisherwithac wrote: post #6

Despite my strong skepticism of this technology being used as a replacement or even supplement for solar panels anytime in the near future, I really admire the creative thought process that led them to get even the miniscule results they did. I'm not a chemist or phyhsicist in any regard, so I can't say whether this could be the stepping stone to something more large scale down the line. Could anyone shed light on wh…

In the paper, the product produces 0.2 mW/m^2 Solar panels produce 175W/m^2 for comparison. If this ever produced 1W/m^2 I'd be shocked.

And that's the production during snowfall. Even here in Michigan, the sun shines a great deal more than we literally have snow falling. And if the snow is falling all day, it's going to be a light snow that probably isn't reaching 0.2mW/m^2.

Plus, if I'm seeing the physics here in my head properly based on their description, you can't just stick this out in the snow like a panel and get a consistent 0.2mW/m^2 even under optimal snow conditions. As the snow accumulates on the collector it'll insulate the collector from the rest of the snow. You really want the snow to be brushing the collector and then departing having given up its excess charge, not accumulating on it. Sunlight obviously does not present this problem, since it basically is 100% made out of charge (if you'll pardon the sloppy terminology, asp precision wouldn't really buy anything here), so there's no additional mass to dispose of, just any waste heat issues that may arise.

I'm pretty sure that in real conditions the difference between the two would be another two or three orders of magnitude larger, which is why my other post is so grumpy. It's multiple orders of magnitude obviously not even remotely feasible, to the point it's almost insulting that it was said.

Re: New scientific device creates electricity from snowfall

#12

Post by RenRav » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 2:18 PM UTC

Does it rely on the user moving around to knock off snow that accumulated?

Re: New scientific device creates electricity from snowfall

#13

Post by novia » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 2:24 PM UTC

A lot of comments here seem to be missing the point. This isn't supposed to add electricity to the grid. It just makes a self sufficient weather station to measure snowfall. Which is cool.

A lot of times you'd want to measure such things away from the grid without having to worry about batteries.

Something I'm curious about is whether similar tech could be used to self sufficiently measure pollen.

Re: New scientific device creates electricity from snowfall

#14

Post by jrace » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 2:31 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #7

ScottFree wrote: post #4

tl;dr: Snow is positively charged and gives up electrons. Silicone is negatively charged. When falling snow contacts the surface of silicone, that produces a charge that the device captures, creating electricity. This appears to be more useful for wearables than as a replacement for solar panels in the winter. I can't imagine the amount of power generated could be that great. It reminds me of one of those stationary…

"This appears to be more useful for wearables than as a replacement for solar panels in the winter." That's a degree of bullshit so high that it has me seriously questioning what otherwise sounds at least reasonable. Yeah, I know, every science paper has to connect itself to some fashionable area of research that will excite the grant writers, like renewable energy or climate change, but the idea that it would ever b…

>>If snow had any significant amount of energy in it, we'd know, because we'd get shocked when we stood in it.

But....we don't get shocked when we stand out in the sun? And yet solar power is a real thing!

I am sure people scoffed back in the 1800's when scientist first worked with solar power.

Re: New scientific device creates electricity from snowfall

#15

Post by maxxxxx » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 3:04 PM UTC

adium wrote: post #5

UCLA is finding ways to handle all the snow they see

The amount of power they will be harvesting will probably lead to revolution in measuring miniscule amounts of power :)

Re: New scientific device creates electricity from snowfall

#16

Post by saalweachter » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 3:19 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #7

ScottFree wrote: post #4

tl;dr: Snow is positively charged and gives up electrons. Silicone is negatively charged. When falling snow contacts the surface of silicone, that produces a charge that the device captures, creating electricity. This appears to be more useful for wearables than as a replacement for solar panels in the winter. I can't imagine the amount of power generated could be that great. It reminds me of one of those stationary…

"This appears to be more useful for wearables than as a replacement for solar panels in the winter." That's a degree of bullshit so high that it has me seriously questioning what otherwise sounds at least reasonable. Yeah, I know, every science paper has to connect itself to some fashionable area of research that will excite the grant writers, like renewable energy or climate change, but the idea that it would ever b…

Are there any other planets or moons in the solar system that would be better for this trick?

Re: New scientific device creates electricity from snowfall

#17

Post by Nasrudith » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 3:45 PM UTC

novia wrote: post #13

A lot of comments here seem to be missing the point. This isn't supposed to add electricity to the grid. It just makes a self sufficient weather station to measure snowfall. Which is cool. A lot of times you'd want to measure such things away from the grid without having to worry about batteries. Something I'm curious about is whether similar tech could be used to self sufficiently measure pollen.

Yeah the electricity output isn't the point but the fact the power generated is the raw signal. I wonder mostly about the accuracy and precision of such a sensor. Even its "not snow" triggers could be scientifically useful. Imagine if say it was sensitive enough it could identify particulates and tell where heavy metal pollutants land on the tarp.

Re: New scientific device creates electricity from snowfall

#18

Post by RosanaAnaDana » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 4:03 PM UTC

Nasrudith wrote: post #17

novia wrote: post #13

A lot of comments here seem to be missing the point. This isn't supposed to add electricity to the grid. It just makes a self sufficient weather station to measure snowfall. Which is cool. A lot of times you'd want to measure such things away from the grid without having to worry about batteries. Something I'm curious about is whether similar tech could be used to self sufficiently measure pollen.

Yeah the electricity output isn't the point but the fact the power generated is the raw signal. I wonder mostly about the accuracy and precision of such a sensor. Even its "not snow" triggers could be scientifically useful. Imagine if say it was sensitive enough it could identify particulates and tell where heavy metal pollutants land on the tarp.

Well I know that lysimeter based snowfall measurement systems can be a real pain for remote stations in winter, so to me this is the exciting bit.

Re: New scientific device creates electricity from snowfall

#19

Post by chabes » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 4:11 PM UTC

fisherwithac wrote: post #6

Despite my strong skepticism of this technology being used as a replacement or even supplement for solar panels anytime in the near future, I really admire the creative thought process that led them to get even the miniscule results they did. I'm not a chemist or phyhsicist in any regard, so I can't say whether this could be the stepping stone to something more large scale down the line. Could anyone shed light on wh…

> Despite my strong skepticism of this technology being used as a replacement or even supplement for solar panels anytime in the near future

I doubt the point is to replace or supplement solar. The point is probably to have a less bulky or expensive way to run remote sensors

Re: New scientific device creates electricity from snowfall

#20

Post by jerf » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 4:25 PM UTC

jrace wrote: post #14

jerf wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This appears to be more useful for wearables than as a replacement for solar panels in the winter." That's a degree of bullshit so high that it has me seriously questioning what otherwise sounds at least reasonable. Yeah, I know, every science paper has to connect itself to some fashionable area of research that will excite the grant writers, like renewable energy or climate change, but the idea that it would ever b…

>>If snow had any significant amount of energy in it, we'd know, because we'd get shocked when we stood in it. But....we don't get shocked when we stand out in the sun? And yet solar power is a real thing! I am sure people scoffed back in the 1800's when scientist first worked with solar power.

"But....we don't get shocked when we stand out in the sun? And yet solar power is a real thing!"

The reason I said "shocked" is not that shocking is the only way that energy can manifest itself. It's because it's the way that significant static electricity manifests, the claimed mechanism being used to obtain power.

You can tell just by standing in the sunlight that it has substantial energy, because you get warm, along with anything else in the sunlight. Therefore it has at least enough energy to do that. Not to mention power the ecosystem.

"I am sure people scoffed back in the 1800's when scientist first worked with solar power."

With all due respect, you do not appear to be in a position to be lecturing people about this sort of thing. You may not understand how energy works, but some people do.