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US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

peoplespolicyproject.org

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Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#11

Post by a_t48 »

penagwin wrote: post #5

I never understood why people are against some form of universal healthcare. The idea of "socialism" or "communism" scare many conservatives, but it just doesn't make sense here. How universal healthcare sorta works - we all put money in a pot, and use it to pay for healthcare. How health insurance works - we put money into a company, who uses it to pay for healthcare, while taking a significant cut as it's a private…

If you drop those who start costing too much, private insurance could totally be cheaper. :)

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#12

Post by arosier »

>It’s just that they pay it into a private insurance system that wastes large portions of it on rents and administrative redundancy.

Would love to see a breakdown of real estate and admin costs for private insurance systems throughout the States to understand how much could be saved by eliminating redundancy.

Not seeing this broken out in Anthem's Financials: https://ir.antheminc.com/static-files/73562e56-886c-4ff5-a36...

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#13

Post by adamnemecek »

pxeboot wrote: post #7
adamnemecek wrote: post #2

Not just that, they are also getting nothing in return. The US voters need to realize just how much are they getting fucked over by the military-industrial complex. I’m not against taxes, I’m against taxes that go to pay for wars as opposed to medical insurance, infrastructure and education.

Unfortunately all that waste creates millions of jobs. If military and healthcare costs were brought under control too quickly, it would literally destroy the economy.

That’s like saying let’s not put out the wildfire, the firemen need a job.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#14

Post by decebalus1 »

z2 wrote: post #6
adamnemecek wrote: post #2

Not just that, they are also getting nothing in return. The US voters need to realize just how much are they getting fucked over by the military-industrial complex. I’m not against taxes, I’m against taxes that go to pay for wars as opposed to medical insurance, infrastructure and education.

That budget seems to be always nonnegotiable, despite the occasional media outrage. Realistically, how can US voters change this? As an aside, the US is the only country I've seen give military personnel priority boarding for civilian flights. With all due respect to veterans, it seems so strange to do this sort of worshiping in what is effectively peacetime.

> this sort of worshiping in what is effectively peacetime

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Uni...

The US has been 'at war' with something continuously. There is no or never was peacetime.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#15

Post by munk-a »

a_t48 wrote: post #11
penagwin wrote: post #5

I never understood why people are against some form of universal healthcare. The idea of "socialism" or "communism" scare many conservatives, but it just doesn't make sense here. How universal healthcare sorta works - we all put money in a pot, and use it to pay for healthcare. How health insurance works - we put money into a company, who uses it to pay for healthcare, while taking a significant cut as it's a private…

If you drop those who start costing too much, private insurance could totally be cheaper. :)

Or you could socialize the costs, cut out the massive waste involved by the private system and realize a healthcare cost that nears that paid by similar first world countries.

Plus I think(/hope) that people in the US have fully embraced their hatred of pre-existing condition exclusion in health care that came through with the ACA. The GOP keeps saying they'll drop it and they keep shying away due to the popularity.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#16

Post by titanomachy »

The Canadian figures seem insanely low. 11.5% total? When I lived in BC making an approximately average income, my effective tax rate alone was 21% [EDIT: originally put 23%]. I paid pension, health insurance, and unemployment deductions on top of that. And that only counts the employee side of deductions.

This example is "married with two kids", so it's possible that there are massive offsets that I didn't have access to as a single person, but 11.5% still seems very low.

I would expect Canada to fare favourably in this comparison, though. The taxes are not as bad as most Americans think. Although they do ramp up very quickly for higher earners, which was an incentive for moving to the states as my income increased. Also, pay is higher in the US (by a factor of about 2 or 3) for the same job.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#17

Post by munk-a »

viburnum wrote: post #8

It’s worse if you include 401k payments to offset a more generous public pension.

Or really any public pension. I feel like if you're <40 then you should be planning for Social Security to not exist when you get old, anything else seems overly optimistic.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#18

Post by the_gastropod »

justaman wrote: post #10
penagwin wrote: post #5

I never understood why people are against some form of universal healthcare. The idea of "socialism" or "communism" scare many conservatives, but it just doesn't make sense here. How universal healthcare sorta works - we all put money in a pot, and use it to pay for healthcare. How health insurance works - we put money into a company, who uses it to pay for healthcare, while taking a significant cut as it's a private…

Trusting in a private company that must react to market changes is different than trusting in a government that doesn't listen to you anyway.

What is the market, here? What good or service do you get from insurance?

For their real value prop (covering the unlikely need for catastrophic healthcare), you 1. most likely won't ever use it. 2. have no idea how good their service is until you have no other option but to exercise your coverage.

Market-based capitalism works best when consumers can shop around, and take their money elsewhere when the good or service is not a good value. This is absolutely not the case with health insurance.

Meanwhile, medicare is pretty beloved in this country. And the public options in other industrialized nations outperforms US healthcare in most respects for significantly less money.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#19

Post by Someone1234 »

I moved to the US from a country with socialised medicine. When you include premiums then taxes in both were roughly similar if not a little higher in the US (ignoring cost of living differences).

But even that doesn't include the real sting on the tail of US medicine. You pay a fairly high health insurance premium, but if you actually need health services you then pay again through the nose even with insurance "discounts."

For example my under one year old needed to go to the emergency room due to a high fever for several hours, we paid over $300 on top of paying over a thousand in combined employer/employee premiums each month. That's with insurance picking up at least that much.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#20

Post by pjc50 »

justaman wrote: post #10
penagwin wrote: post #5

I never understood why people are against some form of universal healthcare. The idea of "socialism" or "communism" scare many conservatives, but it just doesn't make sense here. How universal healthcare sorta works - we all put money in a pot, and use it to pay for healthcare. How health insurance works - we put money into a company, who uses it to pay for healthcare, while taking a significant cut as it's a private…

Trusting in a private company that must react to market changes is different than trusting in a government that doesn't listen to you anyway.

If it's employer-chosen, you're not the customer and they're not listening to you either.
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