Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service • Hacker News Board

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#11

Post by jmtame » Wed, Dec 01, 2010, 6:17 PM UTC

ghshephard wrote: post #5

I stopped reading here: "I ended up skipping my the flight from SFO to LAX because a friend of mine was driving down the night before; I figured I would keep him company on the drive, and I would get to spend an extra night in LA." In my experience, that basically canceled his set of flights ,and he was no longer a customer. That's been my experience for at least 10 years of flying. I didn't read the rest of the arti…

why would an airline cancel your flight if you skip part of it? didn't you outright buy the tickets in the first place?

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#12

Post by alec » Wed, Dec 01, 2010, 6:17 PM UTC

"after all, how much can you actually save by [skipping a flight]"?

Many airlines have complicated pricing models that attempt to capture market demand.

For example, I just looked up flights from Portland, ME to Los Angeles, departing on Jan 19 and returning Jan 26. If you take US and connect through Philadelphia, the cheapest price is $309. If you were to fly from Philadelphia to Los Angeles non-stop on that same day, it's $399 - 30% more expensive! If US were to allow you to skip the first and last part of the Portland-Los Angeles trip and get on and off at Philadelphia, they would receive substantially less revenue.

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#13

Post by swombat » Wed, Dec 01, 2010, 6:17 PM UTC

ghshephard wrote: post #5

I stopped reading here: "I ended up skipping my the flight from SFO to LAX because a friend of mine was driving down the night before; I figured I would keep him company on the drive, and I would get to spend an extra night in LA." In my experience, that basically canceled his set of flights ,and he was no longer a customer. That's been my experience for at least 10 years of flying. I didn't read the rest of the arti…

If he was no longer a customer, I assume they refunded his money?

If they did not refund his money, he was still a customer - a customer who was denied his product, certainly, but a customer nonetheless.

If you buy my product, and I don't deliver it to you for reason X, that doesn't mean you're not my customer. It just means I suck at delivering my product.

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#14

Post by gabrielroth » Wed, Dec 01, 2010, 6:18 PM UTC

jwegan wrote: post #6

I'm always astounded why so many companies seem more willing to lose a loyal repeat customer than take a small hit on the bottom line for a particular transaction. Companies like NewEgg, Costco, and Zappos have demonstrated how being willing to take a small hit on some transactions can engender a fanatical customer base, but it seems most companies still prefer to be penny wise and pound foolish.

This works differently for retail businesses than it does for airlines. If I'm looking to buy a pair of shoes online, I have multiple options that are all roughly the same price. But I always buy them from Zappo's because I know I'll get good customer service.

When I buy a plane ticket, I have a specific route I need to fly on a particular date. I want the flight with the fewest stops. The price difference is often hundreds of dollars. I've had good experiences with Virgin and JetBlue, but I often wind up flying United or Delta anyway, even though I hate them.

In that circumstance, it's rational for large carriers with monopolies on important routes to cut costs on customer service.

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#15

Post by aberman » Wed, Dec 01, 2010, 6:19 PM UTC

ghshephard wrote: post #5

I stopped reading here: "I ended up skipping my the flight from SFO to LAX because a friend of mine was driving down the night before; I figured I would keep him company on the drive, and I would get to spend an extra night in LA." In my experience, that basically canceled his set of flights ,and he was no longer a customer. That's been my experience for at least 10 years of flying. I didn't read the rest of the arti…

It's not Virgin America's policy.

Also, in regard to me not being a "customer" (and that justifying their attitude): how do you define "customer"? If I don't have an active ticket with them, am I no longer a United customer? What if I bought one in the past, and have every intention of buying another on in the future?

So, you wouldn't say "they lost a customer"?

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#16

Post by swombat » Wed, Dec 01, 2010, 6:19 PM UTC

If you would like the European equivalent of this customer experience, I warmly recommend you try out Air France.

If you want even worse, try Ryanair. They actually pride themselves on treating their customers like cattle, dumb-ass sheep to be fleeced at every opportunity.

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#17

Post by jwegan » Wed, Dec 01, 2010, 6:20 PM UTC

ghshephard wrote: post #5

I stopped reading here: "I ended up skipping my the flight from SFO to LAX because a friend of mine was driving down the night before; I figured I would keep him company on the drive, and I would get to spend an extra night in LA." In my experience, that basically canceled his set of flights ,and he was no longer a customer. That's been my experience for at least 10 years of flying. I didn't read the rest of the arti…

The article wasn't just about their policy, it was about how they ridiculed and failed to help a customer find a solution when they were ensnared by a little known policy (perhaps you know it, but I would argue it is not widely known) and ultimately drove that customers business and possibly the business of others the customer tells his story too, to another airline.

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#18

Post by gruseom » Wed, Dec 01, 2010, 6:21 PM UTC

ghshephard wrote: post #5

I stopped reading here: "I ended up skipping my the flight from SFO to LAX because a friend of mine was driving down the night before; I figured I would keep him company on the drive, and I would get to spend an extra night in LA." In my experience, that basically canceled his set of flights ,and he was no longer a customer. That's been my experience for at least 10 years of flying. I didn't read the rest of the arti…

In my experience, that basically canceled his set of flights

So he should have learned from your experience?

Perhaps it's because you stopped reading that you missed the point of the post, which is how crappily the United employees treated him on a human level, how much better the Virgin people were, and the implications of this for running a business.

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#19

Post by gabrielroth » Wed, Dec 01, 2010, 6:22 PM UTC

swombat wrote: post #13

ghshephard wrote: post #5

I stopped reading here: "I ended up skipping my the flight from SFO to LAX because a friend of mine was driving down the night before; I figured I would keep him company on the drive, and I would get to spend an extra night in LA." In my experience, that basically canceled his set of flights ,and he was no longer a customer. That's been my experience for at least 10 years of flying. I didn't read the rest of the arti…

If he was no longer a customer, I assume they refunded his money? If they did not refund his money, he was still a customer - a customer who was denied his product, certainly, but a customer nonetheless. If you buy my product, and I don't deliver it to you for reason X, that doesn't mean you're not my customer. It just means I suck at delivering my product.

The 'product' in this case was some abstract crap like 'the right to fly at a particular time pursuant to the terms and conditions set out on the website.' They're doing a great job of delivering their product; it's just a lousy product.

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#20

Post by buzzblog » Wed, Dec 01, 2010, 6:22 PM UTC

Those who are blaming the victim here illustrate the problem perfectly: some of them either do or will get to run their own businesses and their screw-the-guy-he-didn't-read-the-fine-print attitudes will surely result in similar customer experiences. And business failures.