Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Streets Were Never Free. Congestion Pricing Finally Makes That Plain

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 375 posts

Re: The Streets Were Never Free. Congestion Pricing Finally Makes That Plain

#11

Post by ch4s3 »

dannyw wrote: post #3

It's sad to see congestion pricing in America. I had hoped that the long-lived cultural freedom of driving would keep it at bay for longer, but I guess not anymore. I live in Sydney. It takes a 45 minute drive to visit a family member, who is sick and homebound. To do so in the shortest and least congested route, I must pay 3 tolls: $14.85 total, one way; $30 dollars a trip. Public transport is not a suitable option.…

Congestion pricing is essentially a usage fee, and is highly efficient from an economic perspective. Without charging drivers for roads they get paid for out of general funds. There’s nothing free about non-drivers subsidizing private transportation.

Furthermore, at artificially low prices, more people drive until congestion is unmanageable. Without that pricing your 45 minute drive might balloon to twice that amount of time. Congestion is so bad in NYC that interferes with city services, like busses.

Re: The Streets Were Never Free. Congestion Pricing Finally Makes That Plain

#12

Post by dec0dedab0de »

When I worked in a major city I would go on a half-joke rant anytime someone brought up traffic, parking,or obesity. If I were somehow the king of a major city, I would have a giant parking lot on the outside, and ban all cars. You could buy day passes if you need access to the roads to move or something, but it would be discouraged. People would walk more, and be healthier, The air would be higher quality, and most importantly you wouldn't have to wait to cross the street when you're walking to lunch.

Re: The Streets Were Never Free. Congestion Pricing Finally Makes That Plain

#13

Post by king_magic »

dannyw wrote: post #3

It's sad to see congestion pricing in America. I had hoped that the long-lived cultural freedom of driving would keep it at bay for longer, but I guess not anymore. I live in Sydney. It takes a 45 minute drive to visit a family member, who is sick and homebound. To do so in the shortest and least congested route, I must pay 3 tolls: $14.85 total, one way; $30 dollars a trip. Public transport is not a suitable option.…

I've visited (and driven in) Sydney, and I've lived in NYC (had a car), and drove around Brooklyn/Queens often - occasionally Manhattan.

I think difference in traffic insanity between Sydney and NYC is at least an order of magnitude.

Congestion pricing is the only rational, workable solution.

Re: The Streets Were Never Free. Congestion Pricing Finally Makes That Plain

#14

Post by marsRoverDev »

dannyw wrote: post #3

It's sad to see congestion pricing in America. I had hoped that the long-lived cultural freedom of driving would keep it at bay for longer, but I guess not anymore. I live in Sydney. It takes a 45 minute drive to visit a family member, who is sick and homebound. To do so in the shortest and least congested route, I must pay 3 tolls: $14.85 total, one way; $30 dollars a trip. Public transport is not a suitable option.…

Australia is too car dependent, these tolls will slowly help wean us off that and will eventually result in good public transport for all. When you live in a city where the balance has shifted from cars to public transport, your life gets better.

Re: The Streets Were Never Free. Congestion Pricing Finally Makes That Plain

#15

Post by jdavis703 »

dannyw wrote: post #3

It's sad to see congestion pricing in America. I had hoped that the long-lived cultural freedom of driving would keep it at bay for longer, but I guess not anymore. I live in Sydney. It takes a 45 minute drive to visit a family member, who is sick and homebound. To do so in the shortest and least congested route, I must pay 3 tolls: $14.85 total, one way; $30 dollars a trip. Public transport is not a suitable option.…

I don’t know the situation in Sydney as I’ve never been there. But in NYC, which is what the article is about, the funds will go to transportation improvements that make it easier for people to get around. There’ll be more freedom of choice because the subways will be better (and hopefully they’ll add more bike lanes and wider sidewalks).

Re: The Streets Were Never Free. Congestion Pricing Finally Makes That Plain

#16

Post by dec0dedab0de »

Xylakant wrote: post #9
dannyw wrote: post #3

It's sad to see congestion pricing in America. I had hoped that the long-lived cultural freedom of driving would keep it at bay for longer, but I guess not anymore. I live in Sydney. It takes a 45 minute drive to visit a family member, who is sick and homebound. To do so in the shortest and least congested route, I must pay 3 tolls: $14.85 total, one way; $30 dollars a trip. Public transport is not a suitable option.…

Your freedom to drive where ever you choose on the fastest route infringes on freedoms of others, for example: * their freedom to drive on the fastest route possible * their freedom not to have a large road in front of their home * their freedom not to have their taxes invested in a road infrastructure ballooned to a level that they might not need * their freedom to live in a world that is not inflicted by global war…

I don't think your examples really count as freedoms. I agree with your point, but I don't think you need to stretch the definition of a word to make it.

Re: The Streets Were Never Free. Congestion Pricing Finally Makes That Plain

#17

Post by bjourne »

I wonder if we (as a society) in the not too distant future can make driving embarrassing?

My hope is that if someone sits alone in their big SUV stuck in traffic, pedestrians, cyclists and others will look at that person disparagingly. Like how people look at dog owners not picking up their dogs feces, cigarette smokers or how they look at obese people buying ice cream... Or how hypochondriacs who go to the doctor when they don't need to are shamed in countries with socialized health care.

Maybe it is not nice to use shame as a weapon, but it is a powerful one. We have about ten years to completely change how our societies work before it is to late. All options should be on the table.

Re: The Streets Were Never Free. Congestion Pricing Finally Makes That Plain

#19

Post by nicoburns »

dannyw wrote: post #3

It's sad to see congestion pricing in America. I had hoped that the long-lived cultural freedom of driving would keep it at bay for longer, but I guess not anymore. I live in Sydney. It takes a 45 minute drive to visit a family member, who is sick and homebound. To do so in the shortest and least congested route, I must pay 3 tolls: $14.85 total, one way; $30 dollars a trip. Public transport is not a suitable option.…

> To do so in the shortest and least congested route,

Presumably if you didn't have to pay this fee, then the route would be a lot more congested...

Re: The Streets Were Never Free. Congestion Pricing Finally Makes That Plain

#20

Post by angstrom »

As a NYC resident for 11 years now I see this as a necessary transition. The streets aren't getting any wider unless we do away with street parking. I don't hear anyone rushing to suggest that option, although it's easy to forget there was a time when the streets weren't lined with cars - but horse shit. So we trade one inconvenience for a slightly less inconvenient sight (I own and park my car on the street dealing with the inconvenience of alternate side parking twice weekly). The focus really needs to be on improving the efficiency of the MTA, reducing distance between trains with more efficient switching is big part of that. The inefficiencies of the trains and improved efficiencies of app based rideshare dispatch is what is pulling ridership from the trains the most.
Post reply on HN