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European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

bbc.com

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Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#11

Post by nallerooth »

setr wrote: post #3

>The proposal would give each member state a choice from 2021: either to keep the current summer time system or scrap the twice-yearly clock changes So if you travelled vertically within a timezone, you could end up going back and forth by an hour repeatedly, depending on the state’s decision made here? Truly, a design made by committee.

Getting date and time correct is already a challenge in some cases, adding multi-dimension time zones does not make it easier.

This is why people don't trust politicians - they don't understand the effects of their decisions (it _might_ be slightly more complicated than that.. but it's still).

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#12

Post by seszett »

avar wrote: post #4

> There were 4.6 million replies [to the online] consultation, 70% of which were from Germans. Germans make up around 15% of the EU population. So by this metric they've got an out-sized democratic participation in the EU by a factor of almost 5x. As seen on a solar map [1][2] Germany isn't even particularly badly impacted by this issue compared to say France or Spain. There's some truth to the saying that Germany ba…

There were other consultations though.

In the French poll, 2 million answers were given and 84% were also in favor of ending time savings, 60% wanted to keep summer time rather than winter time. For some reason, people often take France and Spain as examples of countries that would be badly impacted by a decision "taken by the Germans", but France and Spain are very much in favor of staying on summer time.

I don't know if the BBC is trying to push the idea that the decision is somehow undemocratic, but most countries in the EU have had consultations and as far as I know the results were in favor of giving up time savings everywhere.

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#13

Post by setr »

renholder wrote: post #10
setr wrote: post #3

>The proposal would give each member state a choice from 2021: either to keep the current summer time system or scrap the twice-yearly clock changes So if you travelled vertically within a timezone, you could end up going back and forth by an hour repeatedly, depending on the state’s decision made here? Truly, a design made by committee.

> So if you travelled vertically within a timezone, you could end up going back and forth by an hour repeatedly, depending on the state’s decision made here? See: Arizona

Arizona is a hack. This is where the EU is starting from.

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#14

Post by michaelt »

setr wrote: post #3

>The proposal would give each member state a choice from 2021: either to keep the current summer time system or scrap the twice-yearly clock changes So if you travelled vertically within a timezone, you could end up going back and forth by an hour repeatedly, depending on the state’s decision made here? Truly, a design made by committee.

Arizona doesn't observe DST, but it contains the Navajo Nation which does[0], and in turn contains the Hopi Reservation which doesn't.

So you can go back and forth by an hour within a single US state.

[0]The Navajo Nation extends into Utah and New Mexico, which observe DST, so this lets the Navajo Nation maintain a single time throughout.

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#15

Post by zaarn »

setr wrote: post #3

>The proposal would give each member state a choice from 2021: either to keep the current summer time system or scrap the twice-yearly clock changes So if you travelled vertically within a timezone, you could end up going back and forth by an hour repeatedly, depending on the state’s decision made here? Truly, a design made by committee.

There is already no single timezone, with the possible exception of a timezone in the deep pacific, that would allow you to go from south to north without adjusting your clock once.

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#16

Post by sergioisidoro »

setr wrote: post #3

>The proposal would give each member state a choice from 2021: either to keep the current summer time system or scrap the twice-yearly clock changes So if you travelled vertically within a timezone, you could end up going back and forth by an hour repeatedly, depending on the state’s decision made here? Truly, a design made by committee.

Note that the article is incorrect. I just went thought the proposal and what member states can choose is between keeping summer ot winter time!

quote:

"Consequently, the Commission proposes to discontinue the seasonal time changes in the Union, while ensuring that Member States retain the competence to decide on their standard time, in particular whether they will move to the standard time corresponding to their summer-time on a permanent basis or whether they will apply their current standard time permanently. "

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELE...

Edited: clarified "This is actually incorrect" to "Note that the article is incorrect."

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#17

Post by sergioisidoro »

The news is not correct. Member states cannot chose to keep the daylight savings, but they will have to choose between keeping the summer time or winter time. This is to ensure uniform time keeping in the union to reduce trade costs.

quote:

"Consequently, the Commission proposes to discontinue the seasonal time changes in the Union, while ensuring that Member States retain the competence to decide on their standard time, in particular whether they will move to the standard time corresponding to their summer-time on a permanent basis or whether they will apply their current standard time permanently. "

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELE...

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#18

Post by semi-extrinsic »

renholder wrote: post #8
wongarsu wrote: post #2

I'm glad we are getting rid of daylight savings time. It's a biannual disruption of sleep cycles that costs lives (in increased accident rates) for at best marginal benefits: for most of europe sunrise and sunset times change too fast for an additional hour to really matter. Still, I think given the choice most people would have prefered to stay in summer time instead of winter time (or equivalently: to abolish DST a…

> Under the new legislation, governments opting to make summer time permanent would adjust their clocks for the last time on the last Sunday in March 2021. For those choosing permanent standard time - also called winter time - the final clock change would be on the last Sunday of October 2021. It's down to the member states to decide but I think most would prefer summer; save for maybe the Nordics, where the vast dif…

Even in the Nordics, eternal summer time would be preferrable for most people I think. It gives you more sunlight in the afternoon (if I'm not mistaken), when you actually have some free time to utilize that fact.

Who cares if it's light or dark in the morning, nobody is outside enjoying the weather at that time anyway, we're just trying to get everyone to school/work.

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#19

Post by chapium »

FearNotDaniel wrote: post #9

I don't have a strong opinion on whether we're better off with or without the seasonal time change. But I don't like the idea of individual member states opting in or out, which is what this ruling allows. I've lived the past few years in a border town where many people will live in Germany and commute to Austria, or live in Austria but do their regular shopping in Germany, or regularly go on weekend mountain hikes t…

Think about what time change does to hospitals and other critical services. Many systems, but not all are based on UTC and at some point the information needs to be interfaced to a human with the expectation of clocks being a certain way.

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#20

Post by Dumbdo »

FearNotDaniel wrote: post #9

I don't have a strong opinion on whether we're better off with or without the seasonal time change. But I don't like the idea of individual member states opting in or out, which is what this ruling allows. I've lived the past few years in a border town where many people will live in Germany and commute to Austria, or live in Austria but do their regular shopping in Germany, or regularly go on weekend mountain hikes t…

I think you misunderstood that bit, see this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19491551
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