Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 270 posts

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#11

Post by siculars »

This is a very good way to think about the price of goods. When supply and demand are in relative equilibrium price remains stable and reflects the cost of production plus some margin for manufacturers. When you trim demand even slightly by a few percent - which EVs in their various forms will inevitably do - what happens to price? Where is the new demand for oil to compensate? Jet fuel?

I believe price per unit oil will decline until supply is withdrawn to stabilize at a lower value, which may or may not happen. The total market value for gasoline will shrink.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#12

Post by stevenjohns »

austincheney wrote: post #2

Then just imagine if shipping tankers became electrified. The world's 6 largest shipping tankers produce more CO2 than all the world's personal vehicles combined.

Forgive my ignorance, but couldn't nuclear power be used to generate electricity on these tankers in the same way its used to power submarines?

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#13

Post by twblalock »

reustle wrote: post #6

"Forget Tesla" is the wrong attitude. We should applaud every win we can get, big or small.

The framing of the article is that oil companies need to be more concerned about the Chinese buses than about Tesla. It's a simple rhetorical device, not a statement that Tesla does not matter.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#14

Post by Simon_says »

saagarjha wrote: post #7
burlesona wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s surprising to me. Do you have any references for that? Why are the ships so emissive?

I think it's because they use cheap oil that tends to be really, really dirty when burned.

I don't think that could be a full explanation. Perfectly clean burning turns all of the carbon atoms in the fuel into carbon dioxide.

[hydrocarbons] + O2 -> CO2 + H2O

"Dirtier" burning would result in less CO2 emission.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#16

Post by ph0rque »

saagarjha wrote: post #4
austincheney wrote: post #2

Then just imagine if shipping tankers became electrified. The world's 6 largest shipping tankers produce more CO2 than all the world's personal vehicles combined.

Could you say put solar panels on large tankers?

And orient them so they act as sails. Here's a prototype: https://futurism.com/new-ship-rigid-solar-sails-harnesses-po...

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#17

Post by dustcoin »

austincheney wrote: post #2

Then just imagine if shipping tankers became electrified. The world's 6 largest shipping tankers produce more CO2 than all the world's personal vehicles combined.

This is false information that is commonly repeated. The ships produce more of a particular pollutant, sulfur dioxide (SO2), not CO2. Personal vehicles produce barely any SO2 (gasoline contains no sulfur, diesel contains a small amount) so it isn't surprising a few container ships, which burn sulfur-heavy bunker fuel, produce more.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#18

Post by Someone1234 »

stevenjohns wrote: post #12
austincheney wrote: post #2

Then just imagine if shipping tankers became electrified. The world's 6 largest shipping tankers produce more CO2 than all the world's personal vehicles combined.

Forgive my ignorance, but couldn't nuclear power be used to generate electricity on these tankers in the same way its used to power submarines?

Nobody sane would give civilians in a poorly regulated sector nuclear fuel and expect them to operate a generator safely.

It is even debatable if the US using nuclear power on their subs/warships is wise. It is great for natural disasters relief (mobile power plant) but terrifying if the US ever loses one.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#19

Post by cinquemb »

I think the bigger concern for China in regards to this is slowing the pull on their fx reserves in light of their overall demand [0].

Indonesia and Malaysia are taking the biodiesel approach with decent amount of success at cutting their fx spend [1].

Why China cant pursue something similar to Indonesia and Malaysia probably has to do with their Ag policies/capabilities/climate.

[0] https://ycharts.com/indicators/china_oil_consumption

[1] https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Markets/Nikkei-Markets/Mala...

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#20

Post by mikeash »

Someone1234 wrote: post #18
stevenjohns wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive my ignorance, but couldn't nuclear power be used to generate electricity on these tankers in the same way its used to power submarines?

Nobody sane would give civilians in a poorly regulated sector nuclear fuel and expect them to operate a generator safely. It is even debatable if the US using nuclear power on their subs/warships is wise. It is great for natural disasters relief (mobile power plant) but terrifying if the US ever loses one.

The US has lost several, as have the Soviets and Russians.
Post reply on HN