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Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

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Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#11

Post by BadassFractal »

hbarka wrote: post #7

Why hasn’t Amazon, Costco, or Walmart used their clout to effect a positive change? Have you seen all the plastic and unnecessary packaging in the goods they sell. The size of the packaging relative to the actual product is so ridiculous sometimes.

It would be great if businesses decided to differentiate themselves from their competition by using biodegradable, environmentally friendly packaging. I wouldn't mind shopping with them instead, even at a slightly higher cost, just so that I as a consumer don't feel like I'm killing our marine life for no good reason.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#12

Post by titanix2 »

hbarka wrote: post #7

Why hasn’t Amazon, Costco, or Walmart used their clout to effect a positive change? Have you seen all the plastic and unnecessary packaging in the goods they sell. The size of the packaging relative to the actual product is so ridiculous sometimes.

Did you read the article? It says that "more than half of that waste comes from just five countries in East and Southeast Asia — China, Indonesia, the Philippines, Thailand and Vietnam". All the companies you listed are irrelevant there.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#13

Post by 01100011 »

jl2718 wrote: post #4

Third grade me believed that my recycling got recycled. But it didn’t. We paid extra taxes for corrupt deals to get it dumped in the ocean. That was my plastic that killed the whale. Why did they lie to me? I did always wonder where all the recycling plants were. Would it really have been worse if we had put it in the landfill?

Did your plastic really end up in the ocean? I'm guessing most of my plastic went to a landfill to be dealt with later or was shipped to a reprocessing facility. I understand your western guilt, but I'm guessing most of the plastic comes from places that aren't economically able to deal with their waste streams properly.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#14

Post by choeger »

viraptor wrote: post #8
BadassFractal wrote: post #2

Not sure much can be done here without global investment and adherence to never dumping plastics that are not biodegradable. The solution must be possible, but finding the will and the support to convince every country in the world to switch sounds incredibly tough. The US could flex its economic muscle here and say that it will not accept products from abroad unless they're packaged according to its new standards wi…

> global investment and adherence to never dumping plastics that are not biodegradable. Or not producing the unnecessary packaging in the first place. We really don't need every single cucumber wrapped in its own plastic film. (Like it's common in the shops recently...) Lots of other packaging is completely useless as well.

We may not strictly need it, but it is there for a reason. Be it less pesticides (my organic cucumbers come wrapped, the non-organic don't) or less waste (because damaged cucumbers are thrown away).

The real question is, how does the plastic end up in the ocean? Bonus points for: can there be a biodegradable replacement?

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#15

Post by EB66 »

wespiser_2018 wrote: post #9
eecc wrote: post #3

Just like Climate Change, oceanic plastic pollution is a case of Tragedy of the commons. I can separate my waste and recycle as much as I want (and I do!) but it’s all useless if a random idiot proceeds to dump my weekly household recycling output into a river and call it a day. This is nothing that can be solved with personal initiative and responsibility; it requires international regulation and enforcement. There’…

I disagree. Tragedy of the Commons is a situation that is about the management of wildlife and natural resources for the purposes of maximizing yield, with the lesson being regulated consumption results in maximal natural harvest. Pollution is just a negative economic externality, or consequence of an action that is unseen by the participants, where more pollution is always worse. Unfortunately, no one owns the ocean…

Your understanding of the tragedy of the commons is not accurate. Cases of pollution in public waters are typically prime examples of tragedies of the commons. Just because it's a "negative economic externality" does not mean that it is not a tragedy of the commons. Even the wiki page for tragedy of the commons lists "water pollution" as an example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons#Example...

Maximizing yield via regulation is usually the ECON101 lesson that accompanies discussions about the tragedy of the commons.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#16

Post by Ultramanoid »

01100011 wrote: post #13
jl2718 wrote: post #4

Third grade me believed that my recycling got recycled. But it didn’t. We paid extra taxes for corrupt deals to get it dumped in the ocean. That was my plastic that killed the whale. Why did they lie to me? I did always wonder where all the recycling plants were. Would it really have been worse if we had put it in the landfill?

Did your plastic really end up in the ocean? I'm guessing most of my plastic went to a landfill to be dealt with later or was shipped to a reprocessing facility. I understand your western guilt, but I'm guessing most of the plastic comes from places that aren't economically able to deal with their waste streams properly.

As already mentioned, many Western countries ( and others, like Japan ) shipped their plastic waste to China, until recently China refused to take it in anymore.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#17

Post by Ultramanoid »

hbarka wrote: post #7

Why hasn’t Amazon, Costco, or Walmart used their clout to effect a positive change? Have you seen all the plastic and unnecessary packaging in the goods they sell. The size of the packaging relative to the actual product is so ridiculous sometimes.

I routinely reply on Amazon's feedback that packaging was clearly excessive whenever I am given the change to do so. To receive a micro SD card in (1) a plastic container, inside a (2) cardboard container, inside an (3) A4 Amazon cardboard envelope is bordering criminal.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#18

Post by A2017U1 »

Ultramanoid wrote: post #16
01100011 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did your plastic really end up in the ocean? I'm guessing most of my plastic went to a landfill to be dealt with later or was shipped to a reprocessing facility. I understand your western guilt, but I'm guessing most of the plastic comes from places that aren't economically able to deal with their waste streams properly.

As already mentioned, many Western countries ( and others, like Japan ) shipped their plastic waste to China, until recently China refused to take it in anymore.

So you are claiming China paid money for recycling waste and then threw it straight in the ocean?

Seems incredibly implausible.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#19

Post by wespiser_2018 »

benj111 wrote: post #6

"According to the U.N. Environment Programme, some 9 million tons of plastic end up in the ocean each year. According to a 2017 study from the environmental group Ocean Conservancy, more than half of that waste comes from just five countries in East and Southeast Asia — China, Indonesia, the Philippines, Thailand and Vietnam." Does anyone know how this fits in with plastic 'recycling'? These nations either were or ar…

Imported plastic is only 12% of China's plastic waste. It turns out consumer plastic is just to varied, too contaminated, and too low valued to reliably recycle. More info here: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2018/11/china...

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#20

Post by jstewartmobile »

It wasn't that long ago that we used wax paper, cardboard, tin foil, and glass--and it all worked well enough!

And with the glass, you didn't even have to worry about getting man-boobs or low sperm count from pseudoestrogens.

Nothing more expensive than something too cheap, and it looks like the kids will have to settle the final bill.

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