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Matrix 1.0 – Are We Ready Yet?

matrix.org

11–20 of 208 posts

Re: Matrix 1.0 – Are We Ready Yet?

#11
post #8

I had a pretty positive view of Matrix until I came across this post and the follow up responses from the developer behind an unofficial Matrix server implementation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19365968 I'd say tread carefully given their apparent hostility towards competing server implementations, which is literally the only thing that makes the protocol meaningfully "federated" to begin with. This part in…

I think the situation is not that matrix.org is hostile to outside developers but that they are working on something new and rapidly changing and other implementations aren't able to keep up until the protocol changes slow down and the docs get better.

Re: Matrix 1.0 – Are We Ready Yet?

#12
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The future is now https://medium.com/@RiotChat/the-big-1-0-68fa7c6050be

Only Riot Web though :( Riot (both web and mobile) desperately needs to make room and user search more obvious. Everyone I give Riot to has issues finding me and my channels. I get around this by asking their usernames and sending invites to the right channels.

Have you checked recently? The mobile version has gone blue for me.

Re: Matrix 1.0 – Are We Ready Yet?

#13
post #8

I had a pretty positive view of Matrix until I came across this post and the follow up responses from the developer behind an unofficial Matrix server implementation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19365968 I'd say tread carefully given their apparent hostility towards competing server implementations, which is literally the only thing that makes the protocol meaningfully "federated" to begin with. This part in…

Damaging if true :/

Re: Matrix 1.0 – Are We Ready Yet?

#14
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only Riot Web though :( Riot (both web and mobile) desperately needs to make room and user search more obvious. Everyone I give Riot to has issues finding me and my channels. I get around this by asking their usernames and sending invites to the right channels.

Have you checked recently? The mobile version has gone blue for me.

Yes, I in fact just installed it. They changed the text in the "search bar" present in the homescreen, which is a great improvement (it now says "filter rooms"). However this feature is only useful for really heavy users with tons of rooms, yet it's displayed front and center while the global search option which is fundamental for onboarding is still hidden.

The full redesign has been postponed because they are rewriting the whole program: https://github.com/vector-im/riotX-android But this issue I'm complaining about is also present on the redesigned Riot Web.

Edit: sorry, I think I'm wrong. The current mobile version seems to already be the redesign though it looks mostly the same to me: https://medium.com/@RiotChat/riot-mobile-update-brand-new-ri... I think it still needs a lot of work.

Re: Matrix 1.0 – Are We Ready Yet?

#15
post #8

I had a pretty positive view of Matrix until I came across this post and the follow up responses from the developer behind an unofficial Matrix server implementation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19365968 I'd say tread carefully given their apparent hostility towards competing server implementations, which is literally the only thing that makes the protocol meaningfully "federated" to begin with. This part in…

Matrix isn't really hostile to competing server implementations. If it were, then they wouldn't have spent a long time and a lot of effort to finalize the Server-to-Server spec r0.1, which anyone can implement [1].

And just to add my personal anecdote, Matthew (CEO of New Vector, co-founder of Matrix.org) is present quite often in the Matrix HQ chat room, and willing to field questions from anyone. Perhaps with slightly less willingness when people start such accusations.

Also, to address some of the technical issues, I think what they're talking about as "The blocks have hashes but their implementation does not check the hash" in the DAG is being fixed with the next (v3) room version [2]. Again, this development is all being done in public: see e.g. https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/pull/1659 for the v3 room proposal.

[1]: https://matrix.org/blog/2019/02/04/matrix-at-fosdem-2019/ [2]: https://matrix.org/docs/spec/rooms/v3.html

Re: Matrix 1.0 – Are We Ready Yet?

#17
post #8

I had a pretty positive view of Matrix until I came across this post and the follow up responses from the developer behind an unofficial Matrix server implementation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19365968 I'd say tread carefully given their apparent hostility towards competing server implementations, which is literally the only thing that makes the protocol meaningfully "federated" to begin with. This part in…

Matrix isn't really hostile to competing server implementations. If it were, then they wouldn't have spent a long time and a lot of effort to finalize the Server-to-Server spec r0.1, which anyone can implement [1]. And just to add my personal anecdote, Matthew (CEO of New Vector, co-founder of Matrix.org) is present quite often in the Matrix HQ chat room, and willing to field questions from anyone. Perhaps with sligh…

To quote one of the follow up comments from the author:

> If you go to matrix.org and look at the list of about a dozen or so servers: you will find that none of them actually work except the reference implementation, and maybe sometimes Construct. Even thus, the phrase "able to build" is questionable. I have spent months reverse-engineering their software and its interactions before, and after, it was at all documented in this so-called standard (by the way, it's just documentation of their software -- errata and all (and rather poor)).

> Construct server is the single survivor out of the ones listed and even more who have attempted and given up early which we don't know about. That being said, it is still incomplete.

A spec that "Anyone can implement" doesn't have much value if it's so bad/incomplete that in practice nobody else is actually able to create a complete working implementation of it as the post claims.

And regardless of what they're planning on doing about any security issue, there's never a good reason for a discussion of a potential security issue in an "open" protocol to end in "good luck talking to your own federation." That's the behavior I'm pointing to that's hostile to competing server implementations.

Of course, the quote could be taken out of context, or straight up made up. But until proven otherwise, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the small independent developer who seems to genuinely care enough about the openness of the protocol to build their own server implementation.

Re: Matrix 1.0 – Are We Ready Yet?

#18
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matrix isn't really hostile to competing server implementations. If it were, then they wouldn't have spent a long time and a lot of effort to finalize the Server-to-Server spec r0.1, which anyone can implement [1]. And just to add my personal anecdote, Matthew (CEO of New Vector, co-founder of Matrix.org) is present quite often in the Matrix HQ chat room, and willing to field questions from anyone. Perhaps with sligh…

To quote one of the follow up comments from the author: > If you go to matrix.org and look at the list of about a dozen or so servers: you will find that none of them actually work except the reference implementation, and maybe sometimes Construct. Even thus, the phrase "able to build" is questionable. I have spent months reverse-engineering their software and its interactions before, and after, it was at all documen…

At least from my perspective (I've never implemented the spec), I wouldn't call it just documentation [1]. Sure, there are likely some holes, but overall it seems like they've put a pretty good-faith effort into making it detailed enough for someone to implement.

I feel like the difficulty comes mainly from the breadth/size of the spec. Which is a major issue (the Matrix.org team's own alternative server, Dendrite, has been slow to progress as well), but ultimately I'm not sure what they can really do about that considering one of their key tenets is to contain all the functionality out-of-the-box, so to speak (no extensions like XMPP).

[1]: https://matrix.org/docs/spec/server_server/latest.html

Re: Matrix 1.0 – Are We Ready Yet?

#19
post #8

I had a pretty positive view of Matrix until I came across this post and the follow up responses from the developer behind an unofficial Matrix server implementation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19365968 I'd say tread carefully given their apparent hostility towards competing server implementations, which is literally the only thing that makes the protocol meaningfully "federated" to begin with. This part in…

I think you're letting some rando's accusations color your perception of the project too much.

Re: Matrix 1.0 – Are We Ready Yet?

#20
post #8

I had a pretty positive view of Matrix until I came across this post and the follow up responses from the developer behind an unofficial Matrix server implementation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19365968 I'd say tread carefully given their apparent hostility towards competing server implementations, which is literally the only thing that makes the protocol meaningfully "federated" to begin with. This part in…

I am not surprised at this and I am not sure why the Construct developer was either. Protocols like this during the initial growth phase have a ton of churn on the backend and because of that, reluctance to finalize any spec -- it's understood to be a moving standard. So presumably this person knew the risks.
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