I don't know how FB can be a threat to the web if it can only exist because of the web. In a sense, friend data is just another kind of data. The same thing can be said, for example, of Gmail or hotmail. They host the email and contact information for millions of people.
Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap
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Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap
#12Previous discussion from 2 days ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1929796
Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap
#13I think that Berners-Lee and W3C get way too much credit for the web. And this is an incredibly arrogant statement by Mr. Berners-Lee.
Facebook has in-fact done some serious web innovation the last years and W3C has completely dropped the ball. Facebook and Twitter have been catalyzing internet adoption and the general spread of information.
Mr. Berners-Lee's obsession about content-silos shows that there is a serious disconnect between the current state of the web and W3C. The web was about content and documents fifteen years ago, now it's about the flow of data.
I know Berners-Lee is a big Linked Data advocate, but the approach that's being taken by the W3C is painfully slow and doesn't take into account the fluidity of information.
This is one of the reasons why developers (and even semantic web developers) have resorted to non-W3C technologies more and more: JSON, Javascript-wrappers, Webkit, client-side routing, non-REST HTTP requests, IOSockets/Coment, streaming apis, etc.
The web is emergent and out of control. Deal with it. Technologies and tools compete for attention and adoption. You snooze, you lose.
As for the 'content silos': Are you fucking kidding me? 'Content' being stuck in Facebook is not going to happen, in fact, the content is going to flow more and more. If you mark something as 'only my friends can see this', it will leak. Don't want to be tagged in a picture? Well, you have no choice. Face recognition will get you soon.
The internet, thanks to social web, is a giant copy machine. There's a huge shitstream of content and your attention and the activity around it is the thing that matters. Who cares about the damn content.
So maybe it's time for the 'Web Founder' and the W3 Web Museum to roll up their sleeves and do something, instead of bitch about the companies that actually advance the web.
So instead of bitching about the companies and people that actually advance the web and change the world, maybe it's time for the 'Web Founder' and the Web Museum to roll up their sleeves and do something...
Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap
#14I agree with the sentiment completely but doesn't Tim-Berners-Lee work for Google, the main competitor?
Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap
#15So if Facebook is so bad, someone please come up with a compelling high level vision of what could replace it and why the replacement would be better? Preferably something as compelling as Sir Tim's original vision for the Web...
I've got an idea. How about if you want a presence on the web, you have this website that you control with whatever data and pictures you want on it? Coders can develop things we'll call content management systems to make it a bit easier for you to put your data on there if you don't want to do it all yourself, and since you'll control it, you can add whatever tools and automation and widgets and the like.
Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap
#16Here's what I use instead of Facebook: Google calendar for events - Anyone with any email address can be invited to an event. Google calendar also emails out standard format .ics files with it's invites so participants are free to use whatever calendar app they choose and just import the ics files. (This also hooks up nicely with my android calendar). I'm looking forward to when everyone on Facebook gets an @facebook…
> I can't think of anything else I really miss out on from Fb. I can't tell if you've left Facebook and feel these solutions replace it, or if you've just read the list of features, and decided you're covered. What you're missing: The aggregated, passive flow of opportunities to stay in touch. I occasionally have short conversations with people I haven't seen for a decade, prompted by something either I or they poste…
> I can't tell if you've left Facebook and feel these solutions replace it, or if you've just read the list of features, and decided you're covered.
I've got an Fb account, and I do use it lightly. I tend to have random conversations with people because of posts they make on twitter, or on their blogs.
I do watch my Fb news feed on my phone, so if I spot something worth starting up a conversation about I have the opportunity to.
My discomfort with Fb is that to even view content requires an account. Content is only shared amongst account holders. If I post some photos, or an event I don't want to require people to sign up to Fb to view that content. Hence I post my content on more open services. My concern is more for the other people who don't use Fb than it is for myself or those who already use Fb.
If I post content on a blog, I sometimes post a link on Fb. I don't see any problem with that. Some people choose to follow me via Fb, and that is fine, but I also want to remain open to those people who don't like Fb and I give them the option to follow me in other ways.
Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap
#17Here's what I use instead of Facebook: Google calendar for events - Anyone with any email address can be invited to an event. Google calendar also emails out standard format .ics files with it's invites so participants are free to use whatever calendar app they choose and just import the ics files. (This also hooks up nicely with my android calendar). I'm looking forward to when everyone on Facebook gets an @facebook…
You're not missing out on the quality of the tools. You're missing out on connectivity. Some people can't be accessed without Facebook. The quantity of those people is growing.
I do have a Facebook account. I just choose to ensure that my content is published publicly so others who don't have an account can still access it.
Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're not missing out on the quality of the tools. You're missing out on connectivity. Some people can't be accessed without Facebook. The quantity of those people is growing.
Everyone has an e-mail address (it's a requirement to be able to create a Facebook account) and pretty much everyone is on one of the IM networks.
> pretty much everyone is on one of the IM networks.
I know a lot of people who have ditched their previous IM accounts in favour of the Fb IM platform.
Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap
#19w3c should create open standards for social networks. i don't think these companies are going to do it, and this seems exactly what w3c is meant to do. so why not? seems more productive.
I don't exactly rejoice at the idea of reading another W3C standard document.
Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're not missing out on the quality of the tools. You're missing out on connectivity. Some people can't be accessed without Facebook. The quantity of those people is growing.
Everyone has an e-mail address (it's a requirement to be able to create a Facebook account) and pretty much everyone is on one of the IM networks.
My teenage son regards email and IM as something old people use. Of course, this was until Facebook added email features and suddenly it's OK to be seen using it.