Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area • Hacker News Board

Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area

#11

Post by abreckle » Thu, Mar 07, 2019, 8:36 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #6

Technologix wrote: post #2

Can't agree more. Hiring in Silicon Valley for early-stage startups now is impossible. Total Compensation numbers for software engineering is skyrocketing and you'll never be able to compete with FAANG companies. Sad reality but expected.

It's sad if you're a founder or a VC, but not sad if you're an engineer. "Total Compensation numbers for software engineering is skyrocketing" is a very good thing for the folks who grind every day.

Not necessarily true, i know entry level engineers earning well above $100k in the Bay Area who are barely getting by because they are paying $5-$6/mo in rent alone which is post-tax.

Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area

#12

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 07, 2019, 8:37 PM UTC

abreckle wrote: post #11

toomuchtodo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad if you're a founder or a VC, but not sad if you're an engineer. "Total Compensation numbers for software engineering is skyrocketing" is a very good thing for the folks who grind every day.

Not necessarily true, i know entry level engineers earning well above $100k in the Bay Area who are barely getting by because they are paying $5-$6/mo in rent alone which is post-tax.

[deleted]

Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area

#13

Post by freeopinion » Thu, Mar 07, 2019, 8:42 PM UTC

I'd take a 60% pay cut to not work in SFBA.

Maybe there are 10x-calibre folks in SFBA. But they cost 5-20x.

Some companies have recognized that 5x-calibre employees at 1-2x payscale is better than 5-10x-calibre employees at 5-20x payscale. They offer better standard of living outside SFBA.

Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area

#14

Post by nostrademons » Thu, Mar 07, 2019, 8:46 PM UTC

leesec wrote: post #5

sokoloff wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, this is SFBay Area vs India, not SFBA vs Midwest. We have excellent engineers in India (and other locations in the world); it's not nearly as easy or quick to build high-performing teams in India, but it's absolutely doable.

There are excellent engineers in the Midwest too.

But the salary differential between top engineer in the Bay Area vs. top engineer in the Midwest is more like 2-3x than 10-15x.

Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area

#15

Post by futureastronaut » Thu, Mar 07, 2019, 8:48 PM UTC

abreckle wrote: post #11

toomuchtodo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad if you're a founder or a VC, but not sad if you're an engineer. "Total Compensation numbers for software engineering is skyrocketing" is a very good thing for the folks who grind every day.

Not necessarily true, i know entry level engineers earning well above $100k in the Bay Area who are barely getting by because they are paying $5-$6/mo in rent alone which is post-tax.

Unless these entry level engineers have families, there's no good reason to be paying $5-6k a month for rent, you can easily find a decent place of your own for under $4k, even $3k if you're patient.

Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area

#16

Post by mesozoic » Thu, Mar 07, 2019, 9:00 PM UTC

abreckle wrote: post #11

toomuchtodo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad if you're a founder or a VC, but not sad if you're an engineer. "Total Compensation numbers for software engineering is skyrocketing" is a very good thing for the folks who grind every day.

Not necessarily true, i know entry level engineers earning well above $100k in the Bay Area who are barely getting by because they are paying $5-$6/mo in rent alone which is post-tax.

So they have a comparative entry level job standard of living. I've found that even the top paying companies when adjusting for cost of living pay similarly to top paying companies in lower expense parts of the country.

Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area

#17

Post by himynameisdom » Thu, Mar 07, 2019, 9:00 PM UTC

This is the core theme behind why Drive Capital threw down roots in Columbus, Ohio. The talent is there, and they're beginning to see the fruits of their patient investment.

Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area

#18

Post by rangersanger » Thu, Mar 07, 2019, 9:01 PM UTC

Come to Salt Lake City. We even have absurd branding to lure you "silicon slopes!"

There are a few SF organizations with satellite offices here. I've worked for one, have friends working for others. It's a pretty decent arrangement. You can get a team setup here for the cost of a single employee in the bay (especially when you factor in real estate.) Hell, maybe more. Shit, some of us will take pay cuts to avoid working for the Domo's of the Provo Valley. Don't have to deal with time zone issues, and when shit hits the fan it's an hour and a half flight. I've flown to SF and back, same day multiple times.

Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area

#19

Post by jdlshore » Thu, Mar 07, 2019, 9:12 PM UTC

I was hoping for a thoughtful article about a US company's experiences with offshore development.

What I got was a very thinly veiled advertisement and business case for Bridge Academy. Originally I thought it was an offshore staffing firm, but having looked at their site I can't tell what it's supposed to be.

I think it's an offshore staffing firm that's ashamed of admitting it's an offshore staffing firm, with the twist that the candidates pay, once hired, rather than the hiring companies. In exchange, they get some sort of nebulously defined training and mentoring for an undefined price. Oh, and the mentors get a commission when candidates are placed.

Top it off with a blockchain-focused curriculum and a list of blockchain-obsessed hiring companies and it all feels... naïve, I guess would be the right word. Young. Enthusiastic.

Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area

#20

Post by pageandrew » Thu, Mar 07, 2019, 9:12 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #14

leesec wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are excellent engineers in the Midwest too.

But the salary differential between top engineer in the Bay Area vs. top engineer in the Midwest is more like 2-3x than 10-15x.

OK, it's not 2-3x. Especially if we're talking salary.

Salary for a top individual contributor engineer in the Bay Area (full stack), outside of specific skillsets like ML/AI, will top out around $200k.

Midwest, someone with the same skillset would probably make $125-150k.