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Do Jails Kill People?

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Re: Do Jails Kill People?

#11

Post by mnm1 »

c22 wrote: post #5
mnm1 wrote: post #3

It's important to note that no one in jail has been convicted of a crime yet. These are all innocent people when they are in jail, being abused and murdered by the guards inside.

I don't think this is entirely true. Where I live they don't move you to a prison if your sentence is less than a year. It is kind of irrelevant though, don't you think? People who are guilty of crimes don't deserve to be murdered either.

I agree that no one should be tortured and murdered, but my point still stands because Americans are so apathetic to the suffering of convicts (and suffering of anyone in general). Most probably assume people in jail deserve to be there. There may be some convicted people in jail, true, but then it becomes a multi-purpose facility that's both jail and prison.

Re: Do Jails Kill People?

#12

Post by sn41 »

taxicabjesus wrote: post #10

I've decided that American jails are job projects [2]. They make work for guards, sheriffs and lawyers, at the expense of trapping people in a system from which they can't escape. The passenger I bailed out of jail [0] was almost killed by jail policies. He was forced to submit to a daily injection of time-release insulin, on the basis of his high A1C levels at intake. This has the effect of suppressing his blood sug…

A related note on prison systems designed as cheap labor: Solzhenitsyn argued that the Gulag system was not a Stalinist aberration from the Soviet ideal : Lenin himself had envisioned forced labor in an extensive network.

Solzhenitsyn remarks that the Soviet productivity in public works was dependent on this system of slave labor. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago

Re: Do Jails Kill People?

#14

Post by renholder »

xfitm3 wrote: post #2

Incarceration has been a sore spot of the american justice system for a long time. Privatization should be illegal and the plea system needs reform. “Because jails are chaotic and concealed from outside view, we only become aware of them when very bad outcomes occur, such as deaths,”

>Privatization should be illegal and the plea system needs reform.

IMHO, apathy about anyone who's ensnared in the legal system, "Well, if they weren't doing anything wrong...", leads to dehumanisation. Dehumanisation will - almost always - lead to many forms of abuse.

I wish it were as simple as just making privatisation illegal and reforming the plea system but I fear that it would take far more than that to see true change.

Put succinctly: The moment you no longer care about someone's life, in any shape or form, then that battle was already lost before it was even begun.

Re: Do Jails Kill People?

#16

Post by vertex-four »

unnouinceput wrote: post #13

Do jails kill people? No. Jail is a tool. People kill people.

Jails are a system in which people operate, and how that system is designed lacks accountability and encourages guards to kill people.

The people within that system have responsibility for how they behave, yes, but as long as the system continues to exist the behaviour will as well.

Re: Do Jails Kill People?

#17

Post by throwaway4224 »

renholder wrote: post #14
xfitm3 wrote: post #2

Incarceration has been a sore spot of the american justice system for a long time. Privatization should be illegal and the plea system needs reform. “Because jails are chaotic and concealed from outside view, we only become aware of them when very bad outcomes occur, such as deaths,”

>Privatization should be illegal and the plea system needs reform. IMHO, apathy about anyone who's ensnared in the legal system, " Well, if they weren't doing anything wrong... ", leads to dehumanisation. Dehumanisation will - almost always - lead to many forms of abuse. I wish it were as simple as just making privatisation illegal and reforming the plea system but I fear that it would take far more than that to see…

"apathy" is an understatement. Surveys show clearly that many people in the US, compared to other cultures, firmly believe in punitive justice.

People who broke the law are seen as "deserving" to suffer in order to restore a "just" world.

Even if the suffering is not effective as a deterrent or as part of a healing process, it's expected for a philosophical (or religious) reason.

Re: Do Jails Kill People?

#18

Post by tyingq »

This story about a woman giving birth in a cell at a Texas facility is pretty disturbing: https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/07/10/premature-baby-born-at-d...

The guards just ignored her. The baby died. The story mentions other incidents in the same facility. There are several world class hospitals just down the street.

It did get shut down, but likely solely due to this incident involving a child. The prior incidents were well known, but didn't kill anyone other than prisoners.

Re: Do Jails Kill People?

#19

Post by forevertogether »

Has anyone watched the recent documentary 'The Work'? I think putting people in jail is possibly the worst crime of all. Let's get them in therapy instead. We can help to heal them by listening to their stories.

The trailer for 'The Work' can be watched here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8OVXG2GhpQ

Re: Do Jails Kill People?

#20

Post by SomeHacker44 »

renholder wrote: post #14
xfitm3 wrote: post #2

Incarceration has been a sore spot of the american justice system for a long time. Privatization should be illegal and the plea system needs reform. “Because jails are chaotic and concealed from outside view, we only become aware of them when very bad outcomes occur, such as deaths,”

>Privatization should be illegal and the plea system needs reform. IMHO, apathy about anyone who's ensnared in the legal system, " Well, if they weren't doing anything wrong... ", leads to dehumanisation. Dehumanisation will - almost always - lead to many forms of abuse. I wish it were as simple as just making privatisation illegal and reforming the plea system but I fear that it would take far more than that to see…

Everyone commits around three federal felonies a day, according to the premise of the book "Theee Felonies a Day" that I read a long time ago.

We are all criminals and all do something "wrong" legally, all the time. The only difference is that the justice system focuses on some of us and not others, and the plea system harms most of those who are focused on, because any scrutiny at all can virtually always lead to an indictment.

Just check the Skrelli incident for an example, or the whole Muller investigation. Virtually all those people would have escaped indictment had they just kept their heads down and avoided notice by justice officials.

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