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Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

businessinsider.com

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Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#11

Post by strictnein »

sametmax wrote: post #7
jrowley wrote: post #5

It’s really sad to see companies like google buy companies like nest, or more recently amazon and eero. These little companies build fantastic devices, then the companies get acquired and the elegant products get mutated to serve their new owners. Finally a new player enters the market and the cycle continues.

What's sad is that those companies accept. I have been offeredd job interviews at google and facebook and politely refused. Yes, millions are a much bigger temptation, but you still have a choice. In the hand, either they decided those companies where matching their ethics, or they gave up on ethics for money. Given our entreprenarial culture, is that surprising ?

A job interview is just a smidge different than a life changing $3.2 billion for a company that only raised $80 million.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#13

Post by dmitriid »

> “the revelation is especially problematic for the company that blah blah blah”

How is it problematic? What exactly will change? Customer’s will abandon Google’s products? Google will stop this practice?

There will be exactly zero repercussions, and more “ooops it’s an error we never meant it to he a secret” down the line.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#14

Post by jes5199 »

thrav wrote: post #9
sametmax wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's sad is that those companies accept. I have been offeredd job interviews at google and facebook and politely refused. Yes, millions are a much bigger temptation, but you still have a choice. In the hand, either they decided those companies where matching their ethics, or they gave up on ethics for money. Given our entreprenarial culture, is that surprising ?

In the case of Eero, I think they just knew it was surrender or be killed in another year or two. They were already starting to face heavy competition.

Eero was VC funded, right? That means they're basically forced to exit unless they think they can keep growing quickly.

(I used to share an office building with Eero's early team. They seemed nice.)

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#15

Post by TeMPOraL »

strictnein wrote: post #10

Infosec dramas are getting more and more tiresome. Between this and the Singapore Airlines story, it just seems like people need to ratchet everything up to 11. You have two options, choose one: - 1. Google wants to spy on you with a hidden mic - 2. They had future plans for the mic, but it was disabled, so it wasn't mentioned by the marketing department For the Singapore Airlines story, you have two options, choose…

A fair point, but then again, if people don't react to #2 now, how long until it turns into #1?

Things would be much simpler if companies were up front about what they're selling, instead of giving you incomplete information optimized to placate the unsophisticated buyers.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#16

Post by pdkl95 »

> It also said the microphone was originally included in the Nest Guard for the possibility of adding new security features down the line, like the ability to detect broken glass.

Detecting broken glass with a microphone? Does the device even have enough CPU power (and RAM) to add advanced advanced audio processing features? Or was this going to upload the audio to Google's servers to do the work? If it's the latter, that would necessarily[1] require uploading audio without a wake-word trigger.

Either they just admitted to wanting always on microphones in the home, or they are blatantly ling about why the microphone hardware was included. Designing hardware for a large market usually involves a lot of value engineering to reduce the number of parts or replace a feature that requires expensive parts with a functionally similar design that is cheaper. Saving $0.01 (or less) by removing an optional resistor doesn't sound like a lot, but it adds up if you're selling >100k units. A microphone is much more expensive[2]. A part that costs $0.366 (or more[3]?) needs a good reason to be included, and "for the possibility of new features" isn't good enough. So what was the real intended use that justified including a moderatly expensive part?

[1] The robber about to break your window isn't going to call out "Ok, Google" first so the Nest Guard knows it can upload an audio clip.

[2] https://www.mouser.com/Electromechanical/Audio-Devices/Micro...

[3] $0.366 when buying >10,000. Up to $0.75 in lower quantities. (prices from a random example: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/DB-Unlimited/MO064402-4... )

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#17

Post by chimen »

sametmax wrote: post #7
jrowley wrote: post #5

It’s really sad to see companies like google buy companies like nest, or more recently amazon and eero. These little companies build fantastic devices, then the companies get acquired and the elegant products get mutated to serve their new owners. Finally a new player enters the market and the cycle continues.

What's sad is that those companies accept. I have been offeredd job interviews at google and facebook and politely refused. Yes, millions are a much bigger temptation, but you still have a choice. In the hand, either they decided those companies where matching their ethics, or they gave up on ethics for money. Given our entreprenarial culture, is that surprising ?

Often, the offer is much harder to pass. "We will buy you or we will build a better you and destroy your business" - it's not just a money offer to refuse when you think about it. Part of the decision process is also the feeling that a huge company wants to enter the market with the same product. Can you compete?

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#19

Post by flukus »

strictnein wrote: post #10

Infosec dramas are getting more and more tiresome. Between this and the Singapore Airlines story, it just seems like people need to ratchet everything up to 11. You have two options, choose one: - 1. Google wants to spy on you with a hidden mic - 2. They had future plans for the mic, but it was disabled, so it wasn't mentioned by the marketing department For the Singapore Airlines story, you have two options, choose…

Maybe if companies like google weren't so creepy and privacy invading they'd get the benefit of the doubt. But in the world of constantly expanding corporate surveillance I default to believing the worst. Only occasionally am I pleasantly surprised to be wrong.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#20

Post by brisance »

At the bare minimum Google should offer a full refund for those who bought a Nest Guard. This could be covered under the breach of implied warranty of "fitness for particular purpose", where the purpose is "to purchase a device and having a reasonable expectation of being free from surveillance".
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