Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data • Hacker News Board

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#11

Post by plainOldText » Sat, Feb 09, 2019, 10:17 PM UTC

  > ...including jail time, if their companies steal and sell user data, 
  > or allow a massive data breach to occur at their company.

What if the government loses our data? Then what? Will they go to jail too?

Software is a moving target. It has become such a complex endeavor, always changing, always evolving. It's difficult to determine who's responsible for which part of the system; and by this I'm not suggesting we abolish responsibility. Good outcomes will be the result of multiple forces, balanced in the right mix:

A. Users should ask more of their favorite companies (and mean it, e.g. boycott your favorite tech company when they behave unethically)

B. Legislators should be more mindful of the legislation they propose (for one separate data (re)selling from data breaches, and what exactly is my data vs data generated by machines, etc)

C. Reckless tech leaders should have their reputation affected by lose security, privacy & business practices

D. And engineers should be more aware their craft affects the lives of millions and maintain a high standard of quality across their work

In the grand scheme of things, we've just barely gotten off the ground with this thing called software. And software changed everything, but so did agriculture, which is 10,000 years old.

If we develop careless regulation and start throwing people in jail for software faults, we're hardly encouraging innovation.

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#12

Post by maxxxxx » Sat, Feb 09, 2019, 10:18 PM UTC

inamberclad wrote: post #2

Wyden seems like he's been on top of the ball recently.

Wyden is one of the few people in Congress who seems to make a real effort to address difficult issues in balanced and reasonable way.

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#13

Post by anonymousab » Sat, Feb 09, 2019, 10:19 PM UTC

mimixco wrote: post #4

Quit expecting governments to save you. The easiest fix for this problem is to stop using these products! No matter how much bad news comes out about Facebook, Apple, Google, and Amazon using your data in bad ways -- people still keep using them. If enough people quit, this will stop or a competitor will rise up who doesn't do this stuff.

Governments are one lever through which society enacts changes upon itself. They are made up of the people themselves, after all.

It's no less valid than other ways for people to collectively pool influence to enact change (i.e. boycotts or forming other types of organizations).

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#14

Post by Cyclone_ » Sat, Feb 09, 2019, 10:19 PM UTC

What if a data breach happens due to an 0 day exploit with a 3rd party library? Do people from the company where the data breach happened still go to jail then?

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#15

Post by donatj » Sat, Feb 09, 2019, 10:20 PM UTC

plainOldText wrote: post #11

> ...including jail time, if their companies steal and sell user data, > or allow a massive data breach to occur at their company. What if the government loses our data? Then what? Will they go to jail too? Software is a moving target. It has become such a complex endeavor, always changing, always evolving. It's difficult to determine who's responsible for which part of the system; and by this I'm not suggesting we a…

Of course not. The government is never held accountable.

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#16

Post by SiempreViernes » Sat, Feb 09, 2019, 10:22 PM UTC

plainOldText wrote: post #11

> ...including jail time, if their companies steal and sell user data, > or allow a massive data breach to occur at their company. What if the government loses our data? Then what? Will they go to jail too? Software is a moving target. It has become such a complex endeavor, always changing, always evolving. It's difficult to determine who's responsible for which part of the system; and by this I'm not suggesting we a…

Yes, but they obviously can't all fit at once so they will have to take turns serving it, just like how all employees of companies are also collectively sentenced.

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#17

Post by foolrush » Sat, Feb 09, 2019, 10:22 PM UTC

Cyclone_ wrote: post #14

What if a data breach happens due to an 0 day exploit with a 3rd party library? Do people from the company where the data breach happened still go to jail then?

In law, the term “negligence” usually plays an important role. “What ifs” have already been played out historically, which is case law.

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#18

Post by vjeux » Sat, Feb 09, 2019, 10:22 PM UTC

mimixco wrote: post #4

Quit expecting governments to save you. The easiest fix for this problem is to stop using these products! No matter how much bad news comes out about Facebook, Apple, Google, and Amazon using your data in bad ways -- people still keep using them. If enough people quit, this will stop or a competitor will rise up who doesn't do this stuff.

For the Equifax breach, most of the people affected didn’t have any direct relationship with Equifax. So this advice wouldn’t apply in that case.

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#19

Post by sigfubar » Sat, Feb 09, 2019, 10:22 PM UTC

Cyclone_ wrote: post #14

What if a data breach happens due to an 0 day exploit with a 3rd party library? Do people from the company where the data breach happened still go to jail then?

Double the term: once for the breach, and again for poor security review & architecture.

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#20

Post by mnm1 » Sat, Feb 09, 2019, 10:23 PM UTC

mimixco wrote: post #4

Quit expecting governments to save you. The easiest fix for this problem is to stop using these products! No matter how much bad news comes out about Facebook, Apple, Google, and Amazon using your data in bad ways -- people still keep using them. If enough people quit, this will stop or a competitor will rise up who doesn't do this stuff.

Nonsense.

Can you provide a way I can get Equifax and similar companies to stop stealing and selling my data? I've been trying to do that for decades. No. Your argument is bullshit. I didn't sign up for this shit and neither did anyone else, yet we still got fucked. How do you propose we fix it now? The cellular companies are still selling my data. Should I not own a cell phone because I can't get a cell plan that won't steal and sell my data? The ISPs are selling my data. Should I not have an Internet connection? Yes, I can get rid of those, lose my job, be homeless and starve while I wait for the idiot masses to do the same so maybe a competitor could rise up. That's your brilliant solution. And it still doesn't deal with the fact that companies I didn't sign up with are stealing and selling my data.