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Why no one really quits Google or Facebook

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Re: Why no one really quits Google or Facebook

#11

Post by chosenbreed37 »

ptah wrote: post #8
umvi wrote: post #3

> Indeed, this is the very foundation for the GDPR policy in Europe: users should have a choice about how their data is used, and be fully-informed on its uses in order to make the right decision for them. I still fundamentally disagree with Europe's stance on data ownership. If I collect data on a person in a public location, I believe I own that data, not the person. If a person walks into my store and I take a pic…

If you take a picture of a person naked on a beach without their permission, is it ok to use that picture as you like?

> If you take a picture of a person naked on a beach without their permission, is it ok to use that picture as you like?

Sounds like a straw man argument. People voluntarily upload/submit their data to Google, Facebook, etc

Re: Why no one really quits Google or Facebook

#12

Post by llukas »

umvi wrote: post #3

> Indeed, this is the very foundation for the GDPR policy in Europe: users should have a choice about how their data is used, and be fully-informed on its uses in order to make the right decision for them. I still fundamentally disagree with Europe's stance on data ownership. If I collect data on a person in a public location, I believe I own that data, not the person. If a person walks into my store and I take a pic…

> There has to be a balance between publicly available information and private information.

You're arguing that more data should be public so you can privatize it?

Re: Why no one really quits Google or Facebook

#13

Post by fixermark »

umvi wrote: post #3

> Indeed, this is the very foundation for the GDPR policy in Europe: users should have a choice about how their data is used, and be fully-informed on its uses in order to make the right decision for them. I still fundamentally disagree with Europe's stance on data ownership. If I collect data on a person in a public location, I believe I own that data, not the person. If a person walks into my store and I take a pic…

It's a reasonable space to have disagreement in, which is why US and EU law differs here.

Re: Why no one really quits Google or Facebook

#14

Post by djaychela »

umvi wrote: post #3

> Indeed, this is the very foundation for the GDPR policy in Europe: users should have a choice about how their data is used, and be fully-informed on its uses in order to make the right decision for them. I still fundamentally disagree with Europe's stance on data ownership. If I collect data on a person in a public location, I believe I own that data, not the person. If a person walks into my store and I take a pic…

>If I collect data on a person in a public location, I believe I own that data, not the person.

Where do you define 'a public location' in terms of internet use?

Re: Why no one really quits Google or Facebook

#15

Post by llukas »

chosenbreed37 wrote: post #11
ptah wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take a picture of a person naked on a beach without their permission, is it ok to use that picture as you like?

> If you take a picture of a person naked on a beach without their permission, is it ok to use that picture as you like? Sounds like a straw man argument. People voluntarily upload/submit their data to Google, Facebook, etc

Except when they dont: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenge_porn

Re: Why no one really quits Google or Facebook

#16

Post by praptak »

umvi wrote: post #3

> Indeed, this is the very foundation for the GDPR policy in Europe: users should have a choice about how their data is used, and be fully-informed on its uses in order to make the right decision for them. I still fundamentally disagree with Europe's stance on data ownership. If I collect data on a person in a public location, I believe I own that data, not the person. If a person walks into my store and I take a pic…

This was ok before the aggregation came. My presence on the street at point X,Y at time T is public information and I don't object to it being captured once, say, by a tourist taking a photo. But aggregated over a week at 10 second intervals? That's a breach of privacy.

Quantity makes a huge difference.

Re: Why no one really quits Google or Facebook

#17

Post by umvi »

ptah wrote: post #8
umvi wrote: post #3

> Indeed, this is the very foundation for the GDPR policy in Europe: users should have a choice about how their data is used, and be fully-informed on its uses in order to make the right decision for them. I still fundamentally disagree with Europe's stance on data ownership. If I collect data on a person in a public location, I believe I own that data, not the person. If a person walks into my store and I take a pic…

If you take a picture of a person naked on a beach without their permission, is it ok to use that picture as you like?

Why should I need their permission when it is a public location? If they don't want to be photographed naked in public, don't go around naked in public.

If I'm a skilled artist and I see a person naked in public without their permission, am I allowed to recall those thoughts and recreate the image in my mind onto paper using my artistic dexterity? Or am I breaking some privacy law by doing so?

Re: Why no one really quits Google or Facebook

#18

Post by savanaly »

epistasis wrote: post #4
pas wrote: post #2

> " They are willing to give up privacy for free email. " How exactly does Google/GMail violate the users' privacy with email? They process the messages, show hyper-targeted ads. End of story. But is there a Cambridge Analytica for GMail? Can some "app" exfiltrate the emails? Or the contacts of users?

What you describe sounds exactly like giving up privacy to me, even if it doesn't sound like giving up privacy to you. And then when you add in all the other tracking that Google does of your web history, search history, location data, that is pretty much all your privacy gone. Let's say I pay an assistant to help with my email. Even though they are in my employ, I'm still giving up my privacy for the service. Google…

Ok so then you need to invent a new word for what is lost when companies further cross the line from [using your data in a totally internal and in fact internal to just your account]. Because it seems like a big step from treating your data as a tool to affect your experience to selling it to other companies to do whatever they want with. What is the primary word associated with that step if not "privacy"?

Re: Why no one really quits Google or Facebook

#19

Post by mehrdadn »

epistasis wrote: post #4
pas wrote: post #2

> " They are willing to give up privacy for free email. " How exactly does Google/GMail violate the users' privacy with email? They process the messages, show hyper-targeted ads. End of story. But is there a Cambridge Analytica for GMail? Can some "app" exfiltrate the emails? Or the contacts of users?

What you describe sounds exactly like giving up privacy to me, even if it doesn't sound like giving up privacy to you. And then when you add in all the other tracking that Google does of your web history, search history, location data, that is pretty much all your privacy gone. Let's say I pay an assistant to help with my email. Even though they are in my employ, I'm still giving up my privacy for the service. Google…

I never understood how scanning emails to show ads is a privacy violation? No information about you is leaking to anyone.

Re: Why no one really quits Google or Facebook

#20

Post by Animats »

It's not that hard to do without Google, except for search. My phone has all Google user-facing services removed. Mail is on an Sonic IMAP server and accessed with K-9 mail. Browsing is is with Fennec. Apps come from F-Droid. Navigation is based on Open Street Map. GPS assistance comes from Mozilla's location provider. No Facebook on mobile. Messaging is SMS and email.

On desktop, documents are in Libre Office. Privacy Badger blocks most of the junk. Browsing is with Firefox. Mail is via Thunderbird, talking to the same IMAP server. Haven't looked at Facebook this week yet.

ISP is Sonic.net, which just moves bits, and doesn't MITM anything. They're pro net neutrality.

Who needs Google?

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