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Nobody Knows How to Learn a Language

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Re: Nobody Knows How to Learn a Language

#11

Figure out the most common 3000 words and memorize those. Practice the grammar. Read news papers in the language and try to summarize the articles in your own words. Watch YouTube videos in the language. Start speaking to native speakers. It’s not too crazy, school really dated your time. It’s funny, early on, in school you learn words like “apple” but these words don’t come up all that often.

Any resource on how to get these types of frequent lists ? I am big fan of "learn words and consume media" method.

Exam syllabuses often list them. eg search for GCSE French syllabus (UK exam) and I think you'll find a list of around 5000

Re: Nobody Knows How to Learn a Language

#12

The answer is no secret but it's hard to achieve. The fastest way to learn a new language fluently is to speak it, constantly. Yes, it's easier for children to acquire a new language but they learn it because they are constantly forced to use it. I've known a number of people that have lived in a foreign country yet they did not learn the language. Why? Because they could get away with using English most of the time.…

> NEVER speak your native language with that person. Only use the language you want to learn with him or her.

You don't have to be quite that strict, it's enough to have dedicated time slots where you won't allow yourself to escape learning by switching languages. The most efficient way is to find someone who wants to learn your language and do tandem learning, so they're motivated to slog through correcting your mistakes over and over. Since I'm not that good at small talk, I had some trouble finding activities where there's actually enough to talk about, and eventually settled on museums.

Another thing that helps is to watch videos in your target language. It doesn't do much to improve your vocabulary unless you pause to write new words down, but it helps with listening and by proxy also improves pronunciation. I've found https://viki.com to have a nice collection of subtitled shows in the languages I'm interested in. (Though by now I've progressed enough to keep subtitles off.)

For quickly learning and actually remembering vocabulary, it's probably unavoidable to use a spaced repetition system like https://apps.ankiweb.net/

Re: Nobody Knows How to Learn a Language

#13

Figure out the most common 3000 words and memorize those. Practice the grammar. Read news papers in the language and try to summarize the articles in your own words. Watch YouTube videos in the language. Start speaking to native speakers. It’s not too crazy, school really dated your time. It’s funny, early on, in school you learn words like “apple” but these words don’t come up all that often.

Any resource on how to get these types of frequent lists ? I am big fan of "learn words and consume media" method.

Any flashcard system will have shared decks of the most common words.

Re: Nobody Knows How to Learn a Language

#14

> In theory, formal language instruction is precisely the right way to learn a new language. Surely that's not true: otherwise, children wouldn't have learned their native tongue(s) the way they famously do. Not sure what kind of theory the author's been immersing themselves with. When I was studying for a language tutor, along my linguistics program, the context was put forth as the most important part of learning a…

It's also not how most of us learn the much simpler computer languages, I can pick up a language much quicker by playing with it rather than learning it formally.

Re: Nobody Knows How to Learn a Language

#15
In college we had a program where you studied in the country of the language you're trying to learn. What was interesting was the "pledge" where no matter how bad it got, you didn't revert to English. It sucked at the start, but eventually you just pick things up and it just works.

You don't quite get the grammar and native speakers will notice that, but so long as they correct you, eventually you'll just pick up the rules.

Re: Nobody Knows How to Learn a Language

#17

Figure out the most common 3000 words and memorize those. Practice the grammar. Read news papers in the language and try to summarize the articles in your own words. Watch YouTube videos in the language. Start speaking to native speakers. It’s not too crazy, school really dated your time. It’s funny, early on, in school you learn words like “apple” but these words don’t come up all that often.

Any resource on how to get these types of frequent lists ? I am big fan of "learn words and consume media" method.

I think for some languages this might be problematic. I am trying to learn some Russian and the word endings changes based on how each word interacts with other words.

For example :

"I know" : Ya znayu

"We know" : My Znayem

"He/She Know" : on znayet/ona znayet

"You know" : Ty Znayesh

"They know" : Oni znayut

etc

Knowing that 'znat' means 'To know' might not be enough to place a word in a sentence

Some suggest that it might be better to memorize sentences or phrases instead

Re: Nobody Knows How to Learn a Language

#19

Figure out the most common 3000 words and memorize those. Practice the grammar. Read news papers in the language and try to summarize the articles in your own words. Watch YouTube videos in the language. Start speaking to native speakers. It’s not too crazy, school really dated your time. It’s funny, early on, in school you learn words like “apple” but these words don’t come up all that often.

Any resource on how to get these types of frequent lists ? I am big fan of "learn words and consume media" method.

0. use Quizlet's search to find large collections of vocabulary:

1. search for e.g. french (https://quizlet.com/subject/french-basic-vocabulary/)

2. look for the list(s) with the most words

3. check quality (if you can :)

4. copy them to your language directory

5. repeat

if you speak German, the addition of "Langenscheidt" could help...

Example (contains about 6000 words): https://quizlet.com/ThomasBisig/folders/franzosisch-wortscha...

Re: Nobody Knows How to Learn a Language

#20
I grew up with four languages around me and am currently learning another, having also added a couple of others before. Here's my take on it:

- For a child, every lesson in everything is a language lesson. Everyone you come across will correct you. Everyone will add to your vocabulary. Say you're cooking, or going to the zoo. You'll learn what pots and pans are, all the animals in the zoo, some verbs that are relevant.

- English is very relaxed about its pronunciation. If you're British, "scarf" and "giraffe" rhyme. In American English, they don't. Yet nobody meeting someone from the other side of the pond considers either to be wrong. When English speakers go and learn another language, there's a lot of these close sounds that are wrong. In fact just yesterday in a Mandarin class a guy asked the teacher what the difference between "车" (car/vehicle) and "吃"(to eat) is. He couldn't hear it until we tried a few times.

- English is everyone else's second language because pronunciation is not a big deal. You can often tell if someone is a foreign speaker from their accent, but it's still understandable and nobody complains. By contrast most people in Europe will just swap to English if they hear you say something slightly wrong.

- Institutions are bad at teaching languages because they're not geared towards teaching, they're actually just indices. When you learn something like Linear Algebra or Data Structures, you don't learn stuff in class as much as you learn that they exist. So you go to a DS class and you find out there's a thing called a hash map. You go home, fire up your toolchain, and play with it for a few hours until you get it. Everything you need is out there on the internet somewhere, in English. Same with just about everything else, you learn on your own what's been mentioned in class. If you sit in a language class, you can't do that. Nobody can hear if you are pronouncing things correctly. Also, there's a minimum amount of structure and vocab you need to be able to say anything useful, and you're constantly running into missing ideas, eg "how to I say 'used to' in this language?".

- I suspect the real reason people find it hard is economics. Contrary to this article, I don't think it's actually particularly valuable. This is why immersion doesn't happen. Kids have low opportunity cost, this is why they are able to spend their youth learning a bunch of things. If you move to a new country as an adult, chances are your livelihood depends on some specialist skill that is supported by English, and the rest of the time you're taking care of your family. So you're not getting immersion. You also don't get cultural immersion from the language class. I'm not talking about the fact they eat baguettes in France; your knowledge of France as a culture requires you to access umpteen levels more information than people normally do. How many people are going to know what the French think of secularism, or the Dreyfus affair, from just studying French? I don't think I'll be coming across essays about the cultural revolution in my Mandarin class, either. And then add to that cultural items that every local knows, but isn't considered historically/politically important. The most popular Danish song of all time?

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