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What we've learned about hiring engineering managers

circleci.com

11–20 of 103 posts

Re: What we've learned about hiring engineering managers

#11
post #7

I've been fortunate to have two great direct managers at the prior companies I've worked at, and one common thread they have is they've both been developers. I think working in the field before you command people who do so helps build empathy and understanding of the problem at hand, as well as how it all ties into the bigger picture. I've heard in the military officers that served in the enlisted ranks before commis…

> I've heard in the military officers that served in the enlisted ranks before commissioning are more effective and supported by their troops than those that come straight out of OCS

100% true. The difference is night and day.

Both with their own self confidence to lead a group of enlisted and specifically senior enlisted who in my unit, almost always would have had more front line combat experience than the officers, which meant knowing when to overrule and when to defer to their judgement.

And simply the day to day small and large decisions/choices both during training & deployment were always more informed when backed up with prior enlisted experience.

Re: What we've learned about hiring engineering managers

#13
post #3

> We look for candidates’ ability to mentor and add value to technical discussions while understanding their own limitations, supporting a technical decision without acting as a decision-maker. It's nice that they are keeping this in mind. I was a technical lead for a new product in the company at my last job and had a new engineering manager hired over me. I ultimately quit because he wouldn't let me do my job, insi…

> supporting a technical decision without acting as a decision-maker.

manager is ultimately responsible for his team decisions (of course bad managers do try to scapegoat that responsibility down onto the team when the stuff hits the fan) and being responsible for the decisions can't be separated from making those decisions.

Re: What we've learned about hiring engineering managers

#14
post #2

So basically "we were devs and we want managers who are devs" .. which inevitably leads to "we really need some real managers" full disclosure: i am senior dev and a bad manager

Developers can acquire 'real manager' skills. Jerry Weinberg, from volume 2 of 'Quality Software Management"

"In the four decades I've spent in the software business, I've learned that there are three fundamental abilities needed to do a quality job of managing software engineering:

* "the ability to understand complex situations so you can plan a project and then observe and act in order to keep the project going according to plan, or modify the plan;

* "the ability to observe what's happening and to understand the significance of our observations in terms of effective adaptive actions;

* "the ability to act appropriately in difficult interpersonal situations, even though you may be confused, or angry, or so afraid that you want to run away and hide."

Though I have all four volumes of QSM, I lifted the quote from here: http://wiki.c2.com/?QualitySoftwareManagement

Re: What we've learned about hiring engineering managers

#15
post #9

I firmly believe great software engineering managers are people who are adequate developers, but have excellent people skills. Why? They need to understand enough software at a high level to be able to manage, instead of turning lower-level details into management problems. But, they also need to find software development frustrating enough that they are happy to not have to do it every day.

The best engineering managers I've worked with still code every day or at least every other day. They are more than adequate as developers and they also have people skills.

Re: What we've learned about hiring engineering managers

#16
post #9

I firmly believe great software engineering managers are people who are adequate developers, but have excellent people skills. Why? They need to understand enough software at a high level to be able to manage, instead of turning lower-level details into management problems. But, they also need to find software development frustrating enough that they are happy to not have to do it every day.

I have worked for Intel for a bit. I haven't stayed there for long but I have learned a lot about how great engineering management works.

Best managers I met had almost nil technical knowledge or if they did they were not advertising it very much. They were gardeners. They made sure you were occupied, you provided value, you did what you liked and all projects that needed staff were allocated staff. They will meet with you every week for mandatory half an hour 1:1 chat to make sure everything is heading in the right direction and have general sense of how happy you are and how happy others are about you. If the manager thinks you are doing well that's about how much supervision you are getting.

I like this style A LOT.

Re: What we've learned about hiring engineering managers

#17
My ideal manager is someone who has been at the company as an engineer, has great people skills, and knows how to think at the macro level.

This person is promoted, not hired from the outside, and then proceeds to stop coding entirely and focus on his direct reports well being, the well being of the team, and keeping everyone unblocked.

Otherwise, they just get out of the way and let the team do its thing.

Re: What we've learned about hiring engineering managers

#18
post #9

I firmly believe great software engineering managers are people who are adequate developers, but have excellent people skills. Why? They need to understand enough software at a high level to be able to manage, instead of turning lower-level details into management problems. But, they also need to find software development frustrating enough that they are happy to not have to do it every day.

Or, like me, they love development and don't find it frustrating, but they would rather follow the money.

Re: What we've learned about hiring engineering managers

#19

My ideal manager is someone who has been at the company as an engineer, has great people skills, and knows how to think at the macro level. This person is promoted, not hired from the outside, and then proceeds to stop coding entirely and focus on his direct reports well being, the well being of the team, and keeping everyone unblocked. Otherwise, they just get out of the way and let the team do its thing.

> Otherwise, they just get out of the way and let the team do its thing.

Are you saying the next best thing to an involved manager is one that's not involved at all?

Re: What we've learned about hiring engineering managers

#20
> Engineering managers at CircleCI are now dedicated to people management: focused on development of a set of engineers, tech leads, and team leads. They hold regular 1:1s and career growth conversations with the engineers who report to them, and are responsible for goal setting, feedback, coaching, and mentoring for them.

Do you really need this? Developers will have their own set of mentors, coaches as well as people in their network that will help them grow if they are interested in remaining relevant. Why one earth, would you spend so much money on EMs when developers should be given time to think about what they want to do themselves.

The title should be changed to engineering nannies. Furthermore, having non-engineers as engineering managers _can_ work, but it can be a risky move if the person in question does not have enough respect and empathy for the work an engineer does.

It saddens me to see the continued emphasis on hierarchy throughout the industry. Best way to support an engineer is to give him or her a fixed budget for development, and time to actually learn new things and not have their skills stagnate.

I think we need to go back to team leads having hiring and firing power. At the end of the day, they code and are down in the trenches with the rest of the engineers.

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