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A New Golden Age for Computer Architecture

cacm.acm.org

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Re: A New Golden Age for Computer Architecture

#11

Post by Kurtz79 »

simula67 wrote: post #8

> Today, 99% of 32-bit and 64-bit processors are RISC > Concluding this historical review, we can say the marketplace settled the RISC-CISC debate; CISC won the later stages of the PC era, but RISC is winning the post-PC era It is clear that his assessment is right, but isn't the 99% number too high ? Servers, laptops and desktops still run x86 and they are CISC ( unless you are counting x86 as RISC based on microcod…

I guess if you take into account micros embedded in things like washing machines, kitchen appliances, smart home devices, cars, etc... the figure could get close to 99%.

Re: A New Golden Age for Computer Architecture

#12

Post by DJBunnies »

insulanian wrote: post #5

I remember being excited about The Machine [1] from HP: "The Machine will be a complete replacement for current computer system architectures. There will be a new operating system, a new type of memory (memristors), and super-fast buses/peripheral interconnects (photonics)." "HP says it will commercialize The Machine within a few years, “or fall on its face trying.”" It seems later happened... [1] https://www.extreme…

Later always happens.

Re: A New Golden Age for Computer Architecture

#13

Post by masklinn »

Kurtz79 wrote: post #11
simula67 wrote: post #8

> Today, 99% of 32-bit and 64-bit processors are RISC > Concluding this historical review, we can say the marketplace settled the RISC-CISC debate; CISC won the later stages of the PC era, but RISC is winning the post-PC era It is clear that his assessment is right, but isn't the 99% number too high ? Servers, laptops and desktops still run x86 and they are CISC ( unless you are counting x86 as RISC based on microcod…

I guess if you take into account micros embedded in things like washing machines, kitchen appliances, smart home devices, cars, etc... the figure could get close to 99%.

Not to mention laptops and desktops are getting RISC-based co-processors these days (e.g. Apple's T2 is present in the current iMac Pro, Macbook Pro, Mac Mini and MBA).

In fact now that I think about it, pretty much every SSD contains a controller SoC which is almost certainly RISC, so even in a standard laptop you get at most a 1:1 ratio of RISC:CISC. And modern GPUs (including IGP) would be RISC in a VLIW configuration, if each computation core is counted as a RISC chips the ratio quickly gets ridiculous.

Re: A New Golden Age for Computer Architecture

#14

Post by ChucklesNorris »

I think back to the old Cat Stevens song "I Want To Live In A Wigwam", except now I think maybe one day I'd like to live in a Faraday cage.

Computers, like guns, drugs, and any other invention of man are not inherently evil. All these things can be used for good or evil. Unfortunately, the fly in the ointment is human nature. With the convergence of cheaper but increased computing power and the monetization of personal information, I fear what the future holds. I hope I'm wrong, but it looks to me that humanity is doomed to forever live in a state total surveillance and control. We're seeing it happening already. Just the other day I saw an article that said that Sweden is going to tax people on the miles they drive. The very next day I saw another article saying Los Angeles is planning to do the same thing.

Sigh... I'm glad I'm old.

Re: A New Golden Age for Computer Architecture

#15

Post by mav3rick »

ChucklesNorris wrote: post #14

I think back to the old Cat Stevens song "I Want To Live In A Wigwam", except now I think maybe one day I'd like to live in a Faraday cage. Computers, like guns, drugs, and any other invention of man are not inherently evil. All these things can be used for good or evil. Unfortunately, the fly in the ointment is human nature. With the convergence of cheaper but increased computing power and the monetization of person…

This fear mongering goes on since the days of Henry Ford. Technology has been a boon for many many people. I can't imagine a world with many more people dying or without access to information.

Re: A New Golden Age for Computer Architecture

#16

Post by gbrown_ »

cbkeller wrote: post #6

Interesting article with a lot of great historical context. I think a significant part of the tl;dr is that the end of Dennard Scaling and trouble with Moore's law may mean that the best architecture will finally win out, rather than just the one with the best semiconductor design team behind it. I'm a bit skeptical of the promise of DSAs, though it does seem we're already going that way. Curious what others think on…

I agree, my concern is where do DSAs go in a few generations? How many efficiency/performance gains can be had before hitting the same limits hampering general purpose processors today?

Re: A New Golden Age for Computer Architecture

#17

Post by gbrown_ »

I'd hardly call this a "Golden Age", precisely because of the shortcomings mentioned in the article. Regardless of how you may re-architect a processor you will still end up hitting CMOS limitations in time.

To contrast my fantasy for "Golden Age" would be multiple viable replacements for CMOS that were actively being used in a variety of processors.

Re: A New Golden Age for Computer Architecture

#18

Post by pjc50 »

simula67 wrote: post #8

> Today, 99% of 32-bit and 64-bit processors are RISC > Concluding this historical review, we can say the marketplace settled the RISC-CISC debate; CISC won the later stages of the PC era, but RISC is winning the post-PC era It is clear that his assessment is right, but isn't the 99% number too high ? Servers, laptops and desktops still run x86 and they are CISC ( unless you are counting x86 as RISC based on microcod…

> agilely developed chips

I feel there's a long way to go there. The economic structure of the industry is against agility because "deployment" remains stubbornly expensive, and the product culture is also much more conservative.

> manufacturing also gets open sourced.

It's one of the most capital-intensive industries in the world, so I don't quite see how this would work? Libresilicon are offering a 1000nm (not a typo) process.

Re: A New Golden Age for Computer Architecture

#19

Post by pjc50 »

masklinn wrote: post #13
Kurtz79 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess if you take into account micros embedded in things like washing machines, kitchen appliances, smart home devices, cars, etc... the figure could get close to 99%.

Not to mention laptops and desktops are getting RISC-based co-processors these days (e.g. Apple's T2 is present in the current iMac Pro, Macbook Pro, Mac Mini and MBA). In fact now that I think about it, pretty much every SSD contains a controller SoC which is almost certainly RISC, so even in a standard laptop you get at most a 1:1 ratio of RISC:CISC. And modern GPUs (including IGP) would be RISC in a VLIW configura…

> even in a standard laptop you get at most a 1:1 ratio of RISC:CISC

If you manage to find all the processors I bet it's more like 10:1. To a first approximation everything on the PCI and USB buses will have its own processor, even if it doesn't accept external firmware.

Re: A New Golden Age for Computer Architecture

#20

Post by pjc50 »

gbrown_ wrote: post #17

I'd hardly call this a "Golden Age", precisely because of the shortcomings mentioned in the article. Regardless of how you may re-architect a processor you will still end up hitting CMOS limitations in time. To contrast my fantasy for "Golden Age" would be multiple viable replacements for CMOS that were actively being used in a variety of processors.

What specifically is "wrong" with CMOS? Not small enough for you yet? :)
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