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64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

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Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#11

Post by justaguyhere »

maxxxxx wrote: post #4
4thaccount wrote: post #3

Heartbreaking. I'm only partially in what could be considered tech, but I constantly try to move groups in my industry every few years to constantly pick up new skills. I honestly think I have enough random skills now: databases, programming, systems integration, mastery of a variety of common industry tools, project leadership, specific domain theory and understanding of the math that underlays my industry. However,…

The problem with tech is that if you did something just a few years ago you are considered "outdated" and this experience doesn't count. For example I wrote heavy duty C++ code until 2012 for more than 10 years but during interviews I often get zero credit for this experience. "You haven't used C++ 17".

When I was on my first job, we got a resume from someone twenty years older than us. Her resume was tossed aside quickly, but I fought with HR to get her to interview with us. She easily turned out to be the best hire ever for our team - she didn't know Java from assembly, but her common sense and problem solving abilities were orders of magnitude higher than any of the "young, hip, programming wizards" in the company at the time. If not for her, my team would've failed miserably. More than a decade later, I still fondly and humbly remember her.

Any time I see younger folks ignoring/mistreating older folks, it annoys me to no end. As a industry, we need to learn to value experience and wisdom as much as we value speed and smartness. And we don't need to accept just because "HR said so" or "manager said so". At minimum, we need to make them understand that there are lots of older folks who can be great asset to the organization.

end rant!

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#12

Post by WalterBright »

justaguyhere wrote: post #11
maxxxxx wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with tech is that if you did something just a few years ago you are considered "outdated" and this experience doesn't count. For example I wrote heavy duty C++ code until 2012 for more than 10 years but during interviews I often get zero credit for this experience. "You haven't used C++ 17".

When I was on my first job, we got a resume from someone twenty years older than us. Her resume was tossed aside quickly, but I fought with HR to get her to interview with us. She easily turned out to be the best hire ever for our team - she didn't know Java from assembly, but her common sense and problem solving abilities were orders of magnitude higher than any of the "young, hip, programming wizards" in the compan…

A well functioning organization needs a mix of younger and older people.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#13

Post by solveit »

standardUser wrote: post #6
maerF0x0 wrote: post #5

I feel for this guy. Ageism is completely real and mostly missing from D&I initiatives. However there is a 2nd lesson to be learned here. Why in the world does he not have any savings at 64? The article is scant on details, but does mention he was in the computer industry from his 20s, and raised his son, say, until roughly his 40s. That leaves 20 prime years of earning power w/o savings? Something is amiss. To me th…

"If you're in the IT space, live way below your means." That translates to: "If you're in a high paying, in demand field, save more aggressively than if you're in a low paying field with limited opportunities" Honestly, those in the IT field should be able to get away with saving a bit below recommended levels, in part because pay is higher, in part because demand is growing with no signs of slowing down. It's all th…

I think what was meant was "If you're in a high paying, in demand field, save more aggressively (in absolute terms) than if you're in a low paying field with limited opportunities."

Since you're getting paid more, you can put away more money while saving a smaller fraction of your paycheck.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#14

Post by tluyben2 »

maxxxxx wrote: post #4
4thaccount wrote: post #3

Heartbreaking. I'm only partially in what could be considered tech, but I constantly try to move groups in my industry every few years to constantly pick up new skills. I honestly think I have enough random skills now: databases, programming, systems integration, mastery of a variety of common industry tools, project leadership, specific domain theory and understanding of the math that underlays my industry. However,…

The problem with tech is that if you did something just a few years ago you are considered "outdated" and this experience doesn't count. For example I wrote heavy duty C++ code until 2012 for more than 10 years but during interviews I often get zero credit for this experience. "You haven't used C++ 17".

Must be some recruiter saying that because I cannot imagine a tech savvy HR saying that to you?

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#15

Post by towaway1138 »

I'm only in my 50s, but this is very relateable. Did a couple dozen interviews a year or two ago before finally getting a bite. Somewhat amazingly, even passed the hiring committee at a FANG, only to get swatted down by a rare strike from the executive level.

In one interview, was asked to produce a class that could serialize and deserialize a list of numbers, to/from a string of chars. Sure, it's not that hard. Took maybe ten minutes? A few tests, it worked fine. They declined--"your skills seem rusty". Huh?

I'm in good health and much better financial situation than the guy in the story. But without being too grim, I've accepted that someday I might run completely out of money. If I can't get hired in tech, I'll give McDonald's a shot--it's honest work. Failing that, I'll make my graceful exit.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#17

Post by shadowbannedtoo »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #5

I feel for this guy. Ageism is completely real and mostly missing from D&I initiatives. However there is a 2nd lesson to be learned here. Why in the world does he not have any savings at 64? The article is scant on details, but does mention he was in the computer industry from his 20s, and raised his son, say, until roughly his 40s. That leaves 20 prime years of earning power w/o savings? Something is amiss. To me th…

Programming/computing wages weren't that great years ago. I guess there were a few corporate exceptions, like Microsoft, but so many Programmers/IT guys were not paid well, and there were no benefits. This is when companies were called companies, not Start-ups.

When this current bubble of essentially free money ends, many of you will be in the same boat as this man.

And it does seem like once you turn 50-55 you are conviently let go.

This is the real America. There's a huge swath of 50-65 year olds whom just gave up. While the unemployment rate looks great, that number that measures the people whom are not disabled, but not working, is higher than ever.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#18

Post by pmikesell »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #5

I feel for this guy. Ageism is completely real and mostly missing from D&I initiatives. However there is a 2nd lesson to be learned here. Why in the world does he not have any savings at 64? The article is scant on details, but does mention he was in the computer industry from his 20s, and raised his son, say, until roughly his 40s. That leaves 20 prime years of earning power w/o savings? Something is amiss. To me th…

I mean, this is basically what happens to rock stars - so it seems an appropriate reference.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#19

Post by x0x0 »

scottlocklin wrote: post #10
maerF0x0 wrote: post #5

I feel for this guy. Ageism is completely real and mostly missing from D&I initiatives. However there is a 2nd lesson to be learned here. Why in the world does he not have any savings at 64? The article is scant on details, but does mention he was in the computer industry from his 20s, and raised his son, say, until roughly his 40s. That leaves 20 prime years of earning power w/o savings? Something is amiss. To me th…

Divorce or family illness are two things you can't plan for, either one of which could wipe you out no matter how much you saved.

It's easy to say crap like have 6 months of savings. My partner was laid off during an industry-wide crash. She was unemployed for a year, and it took her 7 years (a complete career change) to regain anything like her former earnings. Very few people have the savings to be out of work, or earning 1/4 of what they used to, for years on end.

Meanwhile, you've accumulated a life dependent on a certain income level. That's true even if you live within your means; going from making $200k a year to $40k a year requires a different apartment, a different (or no) car, a different gym, etc etc.

People on here should ask folks who lived through the dot com crash in sfbay what that time was like.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#20

Post by avmich »

1) Have a friend (more better) who can hire you. It's usually better to look for programming work when you're employed.

2) Work (or rather, look for work) remotely; this is already mentioned.

3) Work through a contracting company, preferably owned by you. Let somebody else - maybe much younger if needed - do negotiations with customer companies. After those companies start seeing your work, age issues can be reduced.

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