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Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

citylab.com

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Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#11

Post by jermaustin1 »

alchemism wrote: post #8
lordnacho wrote: post #2

Would be really interesting to see this done on a map of Europe. You'd think there's a lot more public transit used. As a visitor to the US, the main thing that strikes me is always the vast amount of car related space there. Wider roads, massive car parks. Places with no sidewalk! And I'm also surprised at the two places I thought would have more public transport usage. Really, only 30% of NYC? I guess it's sparse o…

The mass transit systems outside of NYC proper are designed to feed people in and out of the city core in two large waves, and [are] not designed to move people around the larger urbanized region (the "Tri-State area") outside of those two waves. So for the large majority of residents, a car will still be a necessity. Even Manhattanites will eventually feel the need buy/rent a car so they can do things like go to a f…

When I lived in Manhattan, I used ZipCar regularly. It was provided free as a "benefit" by my employer. If I had to pay for it or monthly parking or anything like that, I would have just stayed in town.

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#12

Post by closeparen »

Warning: speculation. Suppose that a city’s value and economy descend in large part from connectivity.

A transit system is extremely useful at a few very specific points, but your connectedness drops off sharply as you get even a few blocks away from it, due to the extreme inefficiency of walking or (worse) waiting for a connecting bus.

A road network’s utility is broad and diffuse, with gentle gradients of utility from place to place, as an extra few miles means little. Two points have to be very far apart indeed before they are noticeable different in terms of access/connectedness.

So it makes complete sense to me that transit-oriented cities should be higher-maximum-value, higher-variance, while car oriented cities should be lower—maximum-value but much more equal. Exactly what the article finds.

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#13

Post by francisofascii »

soared wrote: post #6

These maps don't show a dam thing and the analysis is super weak. Its common sense that people in cities make more money and are more likely to walk to work. Then workers in rural areas drive alone to work and make less money. https://xkcd.com/1138/

Ironic that the people making more money walk, (which historically has been what poor people do). And the current poorer people use a privately owned transport vehicle. That would not be common sense to an American living more than 100 years ago. :)

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#14

Post by soared »

aVx1uyD5pYWW wrote: post #10
soared wrote: post #6

These maps don't show a dam thing and the analysis is super weak. Its common sense that people in cities make more money and are more likely to walk to work. Then workers in rural areas drive alone to work and make less money. https://xkcd.com/1138/

Their maps use percentage (rather than absolute numbers) of people in the area commuting with a given transportation mode. So it is a good usage of these maps imo.

It still doesn't provide any useful info. 70% of the map has no data, and it literally only shows urban vs. suburban vs. rural areas on every map.

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#15

Post by marcosdumay »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #4
lordnacho wrote: post #2

Would be really interesting to see this done on a map of Europe. You'd think there's a lot more public transit used. As a visitor to the US, the main thing that strikes me is always the vast amount of car related space there. Wider roads, massive car parks. Places with no sidewalk! And I'm also surprised at the two places I thought would have more public transport usage. Really, only 30% of NYC? I guess it's sparse o…

> And I'm also surprised at the two places I thought would have more public transport usage. Really, only 30% of NYC? Taxis don't count as "public transport" here.

I think the less ambiguous name is "collective transport". Taxis are public transport almost everywhere.

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#16

Post by cwal37 »

Working my way through Alain Bertaud's Order Without Design: How Markets Shape Cities[1] at the moment and it's proving to be a really great resource for understanding this kind of thing and in the process marrying together a bunch of urban planning concepts and principles from economics. Also has some pretty great graphic design work on the charts and figures side of things and a nice layout wherein there are many small sections of 1-2 pages or less with condensed lessons.

Not halfway through yet, but I feel pretty comfortable recommending it if you're into the topic area of this article (urban mobility, how commutes+jobs shape urban areas, etc.).

[1] https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/order-without-design

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#17

Post by burlesona »

soared wrote: post #14
aVx1uyD5pYWW wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their maps use percentage (rather than absolute numbers) of people in the area commuting with a given transportation mode. So it is a good usage of these maps imo.

It still doesn't provide any useful info. 70% of the map has no data, and it literally only shows urban vs. suburban vs. rural areas on every map.

I mean, it’s a map of commuting, so what else would it show?

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#18

Post by nategri »

francisofascii wrote: post #13
soared wrote: post #6

These maps don't show a dam thing and the analysis is super weak. Its common sense that people in cities make more money and are more likely to walk to work. Then workers in rural areas drive alone to work and make less money. https://xkcd.com/1138/

Ironic that the people making more money walk, (which historically has been what poor people do). And the current poorer people use a privately owned transport vehicle. That would not be common sense to an American living more than 100 years ago. :)

Agree. These days not owning a car can be either a sign of being extremely poor, or somewhat privileged.

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#19

Post by herbst »

peterwwillis wrote: post #5

It's weird, but I first noticed this when I went to Greece. It's kind of difficult to get around in Greece. They don't have a wide-ranging national train system like some other European countries. They have a bunch of regional bus lines to get you from area to area, and they may only run once or twice a day. That'll mostly just get you between major cities, and they take a while. I also noticed how difficult it was t…

In Switzerland only very few people of my social circle own a car and the fast majority of them needs it for work. Compared to neighbouring countries having a car is not even that expensive.

It's just a lot more confident to use public transport mostly because it's cheap and just great.

I think people will learn to use public transport options once it's affordable, reliable and everywhere.

As counter example Austria where I know a lot more people with cars. Their public transport isn't bad but expensive and unreliable.

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#20

Post by larrik »

soared wrote: post #6

These maps don't show a dam thing and the analysis is super weak. Its common sense that people in cities make more money and are more likely to walk to work. Then workers in rural areas drive alone to work and make less money. https://xkcd.com/1138/

Not sure why you are getting downvotes, like half of the map doesn't ever appear on any of the lists, implying that half of NY state, for example, simply don't work.
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