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Maybe outsourcing QA isn't such a good idea after all.

skeptek.com

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Re: Maybe outsourcing QA isn't such a good idea after all.

#11
post #7

Matthew/Chicago: Srini did you skip everything that was not working and just mark it passed? Srinivasanu/India: Yes Matt Overseas QA: Same results as domestic, now with 70% more honesty.

I completely agree. You can find trusting people overseas... It all comes from building a relationship.

Granted, being 5,000 miles away (and not having face to face contact) can hamper that process, but there are plenty of trusting and responsible "outsourced" individuals that can handle quality control jobs.

Re: Maybe outsourcing QA isn't such a good idea after all.

#12
post #9

The fundamental is that you can't outsource skilled knowledge labour piecemeal. You either outsource everything , and provide a third party with a functional specification, timings, and the financial means to fulfil those two, or you are, as they say, fucked. If you attempt to outsource individual components of a project to multiple physical locations in disparate timezones, you'll inevitably have a communications di…

I total agree with your assessment. Management sometimes believes that you can outsource software development and quality assurance without investing the time in documenting what it is you are sending out. They then wonder why things are missed.

Additionally what happens is that the person sending out the work is often stuck having to fix it due to a crunch in time, thus defeating the purpose of outsourcing. (At least in my experience)

Re: Maybe outsourcing QA isn't such a good idea after all.

#13
post #8

Title is overgeneralizing. A lot depends on how teams and communication are set up. I have had success in outsourcing QA. The key is to either have people onshore who can communicate with them over phones or someone offshore who is a good communicator and have him/her explain things in person. >Matthew/Chicago: I think I’m in the Twilight Zone. Can't 'Matt' fathom that his message might be confusing to a non-native s…

After the guy admits that he simply ignored failed tests and marked the QA as passed, I think the time for kind and easy to understand communication is long past.

It looked to me like he just misunderstood the question. He shouldn't be answering "Yes" when he doesn't understand, of course, but I don't think he was admitting to fraud or dishonesty.

Re: Maybe outsourcing QA isn't such a good idea after all.

#15
I saw a lot of this at two of the web companies I worked in the mid-2000s. Outsourcing/offshoring was all the rage and it was tempting for a mid-sized web company to think, "you know, our processes are starting to break down now that releasing buggy code causes a lot more problems, but it's going to take months to build a QA team... let's offshore it!"

It's not trivial. If your software development process can be described as, "some business guy writes an e-mail with four sentences and a developer works with him to implement the feature" or "production and dev environments are never in sync, but devs double as sysadmins and have access to production so they just modify configuration as necessary," then offshoring/outsourcing QA is doomed to fail. You need things like detailed specs and a consistent QA environment. I had projects that took 4 days to develop but 2 months to QA because every "bug" was either a) actually an intended feature or b) some inconsistency with my dev and their QA environment. Throw in a time difference causing a 10 minute hallway conversation now taking 2 weeks over e-mail, and very often a language barrier, and there is no other possible outcome except for an unmitigated disaster.

Re: Maybe outsourcing QA isn't such a good idea after all.

#16

Title is overgeneralizing. A lot depends on how teams and communication are set up. I have had success in outsourcing QA. The key is to either have people onshore who can communicate with them over phones or someone offshore who is a good communicator and have him/her explain things in person. >Matthew/Chicago: I think I’m in the Twilight Zone. Can't 'Matt' fathom that his message might be confusing to a non-native s…

The problem with outsourcing is always the fact that you get this idea of people with at least decent knowledge of X language and more times than not it blows up in everyones face when it just isn't the case. I don't care if he doesn't understand, if he has to deal with people speaking english/spanish/russian/whatever he HAS to have a decent grasp at the language (or he shouldn't be doing that line of work).

You're saying that this Matt person should have had a person that could be able to speak baby language to communicate effectively? He shouldn't have to do that at all. What's the point in outsourcing if you need people that speak baby language to communicate effectively? Matt took control of the situation and I think he was quite civil in firing that dude. I know more than one manager whom would have snapped big time at such stupidity.

Aside I've been in this same position with a three different development teams in India. Awful experience. I'm not saying there are no capable people in India, there are boatloads of great people in India, but sadly with 1.2 billion people your chances of stumbling into one of this awesome people are slimmer than Kate Moss.

If I get hired as a French speaking programmer, and I can't either speak French or program, I'm a total lier and will probably go out the door in flames when I get fired. I don't think outsourced teams should be exempted from this.

Re: Maybe outsourcing QA isn't such a good idea after all.

#17
I'm an US ex-pat living and working in a developing country, and I see this situation all the time. For the first couple years, I would lose my mind when it happened. Then I realized that it's not an intelligence or skill thing; it's a cultural and communication thing.

- A friend of mine here once hired a guy to paint his ceiling. The painter did a good job on the ceiling, but didn't put down tarps and got paint everywhere on the walls and floor. My friend was understandably angry, but the painter couldn't understand what the problem was. From the painter's point of view, my friend didn't specify that the floor and walls not get paint on them.

- I hired a crew to build an addition to our office. After they put in the floor, I realized that it was lumpy and misshapen. When I confronted them about it, they didn't consider it a problem. I didn't say the floor needed to be flat.

- I asked a smart, college-educated colleague to fix one of our broken clocks. She ended up just switching the clock with one of the working clocks. I had to go back and specify that all clocks need to work.

If you're going to outsource, you absolutely need someone who can bridge this gap. What feels half-ass and unacceptable under any circumstances to you and me, could just be normal and expected for a lot of people. And similarly, what feels normal and acceptable to us can feel obnoxiously strict and overbearing for others.

The trick is to understand that for any given situation, the meaning of "acceptable" varies from culture to culture. And it has nothing to do with skill or intelligence.

Re: Maybe outsourcing QA isn't such a good idea after all.

#19
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the guy admits that he simply ignored failed tests and marked the QA as passed, I think the time for kind and easy to understand communication is long past.

It looked to me like he just misunderstood the question. He shouldn't be answering "Yes" when he doesn't understand, of course, but I don't think he was admitting to fraud or dishonesty.

Did you miss how the conversation started? They were talking over the internet, and she wanted him to see if his internet connection was working.

Re: Maybe outsourcing QA isn't such a good idea after all.

#20
post #17

I'm an US ex-pat living and working in a developing country, and I see this situation all the time. For the first couple years, I would lose my mind when it happened. Then I realized that it's not an intelligence or skill thing; it's a cultural and communication thing. - A friend of mine here once hired a guy to paint his ceiling. The painter did a good job on the ceiling, but didn't put down tarps and got paint ever…

Hyung, are you in Vietnam? :)
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