Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 789 posts

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#11

Post by raiflip »

misiti3780 wrote: post #3

Am I the only one surprised that Patreon employs 170 people?

A lot of major tech companies employ a lot less people you'd expect. I think tech companies in general try to leverage tech to scale up their business without increasing their employee overhead by a lot, but that can clash severely with the reality that properly moderating a platform is very hard to automate, and therefore hard to scale. It may very well require tech companies to bite the bullet and hire admins en-masse. Would be interesting to see how this would effect the bottom line or if its even doable.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#12

Post by endisukaj »

apk-d wrote: post #5
darkpuma wrote: post #2

The real meat of the racist speech: > "This month, the site’s moderators received a complaint about Mr. Benjamin, who had risen to fame railing against diversity and feminism during the GamerGate movement in 2014. Mr. Benjamin used the N-word and anti-gay language during an interview posted to YouTube on Feb. 7, Patreon found." I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression Benjamin used that word to insult white sup…

Our descendants are going to be seriously confused by our practice of limiting or taking away people's ability to earn money because they publicly used a wrong word. Or so I hope, at least.

The right to free speech protects you from being persecuted by the government. Patreon and any other private company reserve the right to choose their customers (and workers) based on what they say. This has always been the case. There are countless examples, even in the past, where companies have fired employees for saying things they shouldn't have.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#13

Post by ellard »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #6
misiti3780 wrote: post #3

Am I the only one surprised that Patreon employs 170 people?

I'm surprised that it only takes 17 of them to moderate. That seems like a very low number, given how big Patreon has gotten.

They probably have a system in place that automatically flags pages that look suspicious until a human approves of them.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#14

Post by orblivion »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #7
raiflip wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with his choice of words, and I think its kinda weird that he chose to express himself the way he did when there was a much easier way to go about making the same remark, but that said, it's simply amoral to try and cutoff someone's living and censor them just because the way they said something wasn't to your liking (to be clear I'm not talking about you in particular, but just people in general who th…

> it's simply amoral to try and cutoff someone's living and censor them just because the way they said something wasn't to your liking Would it be immoral (or amoral, either one) of my employer to fire me employed if I gave a tech talk and started throwing the N-word around? Patreon has fairly clear rules on behavior; they're not obligated to keep anyone as their client if they start breaking them.

According to what I've heard, those clear rules state that they apply to what is said as part of work that is funded by Patreon. This could be misinformation, though, and I'd be happy if someone corrects it here.

With that in mind, he made the remarks in question during a conversation that took place on somebody else's YouTube channel. It sounds like Patreon presumes that the guy's patronized work includes all public appearances. This seems like a stretch, or at least an ambiguity worth sorting out.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#16

Post by abrowne »

raiflip wrote: post #11
misiti3780 wrote: post #3

Am I the only one surprised that Patreon employs 170 people?

A lot of major tech companies employ a lot less people you'd expect. I think tech companies in general try to leverage tech to scale up their business without increasing their employee overhead by a lot, but that can clash severely with the reality that properly moderating a platform is very hard to automate, and therefore hard to scale. It may very well require tech companies to bite the bullet and hire admins en-ma…

I'm surprised they employ that many, not that few!

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#17

Post by exotree »

apk-d wrote: post #5
darkpuma wrote: post #2

The real meat of the racist speech: > "This month, the site’s moderators received a complaint about Mr. Benjamin, who had risen to fame railing against diversity and feminism during the GamerGate movement in 2014. Mr. Benjamin used the N-word and anti-gay language during an interview posted to YouTube on Feb. 7, Patreon found." I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression Benjamin used that word to insult white sup…

Our descendants are going to be seriously confused by our practice of limiting or taking away people's ability to earn money because they publicly used a wrong word. Or so I hope, at least.

I don’t think they will be. It’s pretty easy to parse: these users don’t own Patreon; therefore, users whose speech they disagree with are not entitled to their services. This is honestly pretty well established. Patreon does not owe anyone a platform.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#18

Post by raiflip »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #7
raiflip wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with his choice of words, and I think its kinda weird that he chose to express himself the way he did when there was a much easier way to go about making the same remark, but that said, it's simply amoral to try and cutoff someone's living and censor them just because the way they said something wasn't to your liking (to be clear I'm not talking about you in particular, but just people in general who th…

> it's simply amoral to try and cutoff someone's living and censor them just because the way they said something wasn't to your liking Would it be immoral (or amoral, either one) of my employer to fire me employed if I gave a tech talk and started throwing the N-word around? Patreon has fairly clear rules on behavior; they're not obligated to keep anyone as their client if they start breaking them.

Actually Patreon rules had explicitly said they will only kick you off if you violate the rules on their website, so technically Sargon was not even breaking their rules.

The primary distinction between your example and what happened was Sargon was using the phrase in a context that made sense because he was talking to white supremacist, and turning the word against them. There is no such corresponding context for any tech talk.

Certainly Patreon has no obligation to keep anyone. I also don't have an obligation to like how they choose to moderate their platform.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#19

Post by darkpuma »

StavrosK wrote: post #8
darkpuma wrote: post #2

The real meat of the racist speech: > "This month, the site’s moderators received a complaint about Mr. Benjamin, who had risen to fame railing against diversity and feminism during the GamerGate movement in 2014. Mr. Benjamin used the N-word and anti-gay language during an interview posted to YouTube on Feb. 7, Patreon found." I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression Benjamin used that word to insult white sup…

What did he say, exactly? This sounds like a possible use-mention distinction problem to me.

Good question. I've found a transcript published by patreon: https://patreonhq.com/hate-speech-on-patreon-a9026e52c2cf?gi...

It's... pretty vitriolic. I'm not totally comfortable with even quoting the redacted version, but here goes nothing:

>“I just can’t be bothered with people who chose to treat me like this. It’s really annoying. Like, I — . You’re acting like a bunch of n_____s, just so you know. You act like white n_____s. Exactly how you describe black people acting is the impression I get dealing with the Alt Right. I’m really, I’m just not in the mood to deal with this kind of disrespect.”

>“Look, you carry on, but don’t expect me to then have a debate with one of your f__gots.…Like why would I bother?…Maybe you’re just acting like a n____r, mate? Have you considered that? Do you think white people act like this? White people are meant to be polite and respectful to one another, and you guys can’t even act like white people, it’s really amazing to me.”

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#20

Post by pavel_lishin »

gnu8 wrote: post #15
misiti3780 wrote: post #3

Am I the only one surprised that Patreon employs 170 people?

I am surprised that the picture in the article is their working environment. Is it really necessary in a tech company that everyone be asses-to-elbows like so?

Doesn't look too different from my current employer's office, in terms of the ass-to-elbow ratio.
Post reply on HN