American Universities’ China Problem • Hacker News Board

Re: American Universities’ China Problem

#11

Post by marcus_holmes » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 8:50 AM UTC

seppin wrote: post #7

wtvanhest wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need to dramatically lower headcount including professors and likely lower salaries as well. The total expense of US higher education needs to come way down.

What is the correlation between status as the best in the world and cost? I'm not saying it's perfect, but surely there is some relation.

American Universities are hardly "best in the world". American education is universally scorned, apart from a small handful of institutions.

The draw for US universities is as a gateway to possible citizenship in the future.

Re: American Universities’ China Problem

#12

Post by grenoire » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 8:57 AM UTC

buckysock wrote: post #10

Has anyone studied the effects of an American education in bringing more westernization and western ideas into China ? Surely all these graduate students aren’t gonna go back with the same exact ideology that they came with, per se

The kind of students who have the means to study abroad are more often than not (in my anecdotal experience, in the Netherlands (which has a different scholarship dynamic too)) already pretty Westernised. I also know that myself, given I got to leave Turkey.

Re: American Universities’ China Problem

#13

Post by xte » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 9:15 AM UTC

China and in general "productive Asia" grab the worse of USA/UK model and push it to the extreme, that's the real problem for them, especially for their citizen.

Re: American Universities’ China Problem

#14

Post by Nasrudith » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 10:11 AM UTC

Simulacra wrote: post #2

It’s very interesting and unfortunate that our universities taken a lot of money from awful regimes. There’s been a lot of talk about universities heavily depending on international students because they pay exorbitant tuition. I’m not sure what the solution to this is.

Becoming less dependent period would be a start - universities seem to catchup themselves in net lossy winner takes all marketing spirals from campus cosmetics to trying to compete in sports by funneling money in that is usually not earned back.

The thing to make abundantly clear to less than free nations of all stripes is that the committment to truth and dialogue are an integral part of the quality they are sending students there for in the first place.

Re: American Universities’ China Problem

#15

Post by singularity2001 » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 10:36 AM UTC

Simulacra wrote: post #2

It’s very interesting and unfortunate that our universities taken a lot of money from awful regimes. There’s been a lot of talk about universities heavily depending on international students because they pay exorbitant tuition. I’m not sure what the solution to this is.

Get funded by society (taxes) instead of individuals. 1% of the military budged would do.

Re: American Universities’ China Problem

#16

Post by carlyfan » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 11:33 AM UTC

carlyfan wrote: post #9

I came from Vietnam, in my views, Vietnam is China-lite or China-CC. The other day my American friend (who was my roommate) came with me to visit that country and we had a pretty interesting conversation on the taxi cab from the airport to the hotel. My ex's dad worked in the government and his role was essentially censor the press (and my ex was particularly hush-hush about that). Now on my ex's views, she said her…

>I believe many scholars in China didn’t say things directly because they were brainwashed or cowards. They know their priorities.

What I meant was “many scholars in China didn’t say things directly not because they were brainwashed or cowards.” Say if I do AI or biology research or whatever, I’d rather spend my time doing those things instead of arguing with people about whether a particular person really was good or bad. It’s like how we see the Trump administration now: everyone already made up their mind. I don’t go out to the street to protest Trump everyday, and I don’t share CNN news about how bad he is on my Facebook feed.

Not that I can freely do it in those countries, but the idea is that we have limited time in this world. Asking people to express/assert their views on shit they have little interest in and saying that they’re cowards when they don’t say what you want to hear is simplifying it a bit much.

Re: American Universities’ China Problem

#17

Post by throwhuawei » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 12:21 PM UTC

hkai wrote: post #6

Simulacra wrote: post #2

It’s very interesting and unfortunate that our universities taken a lot of money from awful regimes. There’s been a lot of talk about universities heavily depending on international students because they pay exorbitant tuition. I’m not sure what the solution to this is.

Establish the culture of not being afraid to "offend with facts", which academia is now lacking. Run universities as nonprofits.

Please do say what offensive 'facts' are universities afraid to teach. As someone working in academia, I'm curious to know what ultra-subversive stuff I've been missing all along, and surely a HN commenter in a thread about a Quillette article can tell me.

Re: American Universities’ China Problem

#18

Post by blueboo » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 3:43 PM UTC

buckysock wrote: post #10

Has anyone studied the effects of an American education in bringing more westernization and western ideas into China ? Surely all these graduate students aren’t gonna go back with the same exact ideology that they came with, per se

The effect is of the same order of magnitude as that which American students who study in China experience. It stands to reason that us Americans would be impressed and influenced by seeing such a economic success story up close, right?...

Re: American Universities’ China Problem

#19

Post by Simulacra » Wed, Dec 26, 2018, 8:14 AM UTC

hkai wrote: post #6

Simulacra wrote: post #2

It’s very interesting and unfortunate that our universities taken a lot of money from awful regimes. There’s been a lot of talk about universities heavily depending on international students because they pay exorbitant tuition. I’m not sure what the solution to this is.

Establish the culture of not being afraid to "offend with facts", which academia is now lacking. Run universities as nonprofits.

Here’s a fact: Taiwan is a sovereign independent nation. Try saying that as a professor and not getting attacked by China’s expat thought goons.

Re: American Universities’ China Problem

#20

Post by seppin » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 3:23 AM UTC

marcus_holmes wrote: post #11

seppin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the correlation between status as the best in the world and cost? I'm not saying it's perfect, but surely there is some relation.

American Universities are hardly "best in the world". American education is universally scorned, apart from a small handful of institutions. The draw for US universities is as a gateway to possible citizenship in the future.

really, really untrue. My most recent trip to Asia had most of the "smaller" midwest Uni's promoted (as for many it's the only way into US higher Edu).