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Tell HN: Tech Recruiters have no clue

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Re: Tell HN: Tech Recruiters have no clue

#11

Post by jrockway »

swombat wrote: post #2

Why are you going through recruiters? You already know how to market yourself. You're just trying to market yourself to a different set of people. Also, you can't at the same time say you're a whore for money and then complain that you have to prostitute yourself to make your money.

There are two reasons to involve recruiters. One, many companies only accept your resume if it comes from a recruiter. If you know someone personally (or online), then you can come in through the back door. But for 99% of companies you want to work for, you don't know anyone to vouch for you. So it's either deal with a recruiter, or leave some doors unopened.

Second, recruiters get paid as a percentage of the salary they get you, and aren't afraid to get you an amount that gets them a good amount. I always hate to play hardball (effective as it is) and talk about how much money I want, but recruiters love doing that it. It's their job. And, if they are a jackass about it, you just say (after you start work) "oh, sorry about him, recruiters, sigh" and keep whatever they negotiated for you. Then you are the good guy, but you get the benefits as if you were the bad guy. :)

FWIW, I doubled my salary by working with a recruiter. And I like the job better! Being a corporate sellout is highly underrated.

Re: Tell HN: Tech Recruiters have no clue

#12

Post by papaf »

I recently applied for a programming position with some knowledge of maths.

The recruiter phoned me up and asked me if I was good at maths. I explained that it depended on the subject area because, although I have just finished a PhD involving mathematical modelling (as stated in my CV and cover letter), I wasn't a mathematician by training and it would depend on what methods the company were using.

I learnt an important lesson that honesty doesn't work with these people. He cut me off and said I wasn't suitable because this position required somebody that was good at maths. My CV wasn't put forward.

Re: Tell HN: Tech Recruiters have no clue

#13

Post by projectileboy »

swombat wrote: post #2

Why are you going through recruiters? You already know how to market yourself. You're just trying to market yourself to a different set of people. Also, you can't at the same time say you're a whore for money and then complain that you have to prostitute yourself to make your money.

Oftentimes as an independent contractor you must deal with recruiters in one way or another, because they're on the dreaded "preferred vendor list", which is the only way you're getting work from any company bigger than a few hundred people. It's a total scam, but there's no easy way around it.

Re: Tell HN: Tech Recruiters have no clue

#14

Post by projectileboy »

wccrawford wrote: post #5

You have failed to understand her job. Her clients are requiring these things. I know this, because the company I work for has had to draw hard lines on recruiters. Before that, they would send us utter crap and waste our time. Now, we don't get many hits, but most of them are actually worth talking to. She asked you all those questions because when she assumes things, her customers get really angry. Sending bad recr…

I'm with what you're saying, but what I find frustrating is that it seems then fair to say that the recruiter has a professional responsibility to their clients to know something about software in order to effectively screen candidates. But 99% of recruiters I've ever dealt with don't even pretend to make an effort.

Interestingly, most IT managers hate recruiters as much or more than I do, but - like me - they're at the mercy of their corporations' "preferred vendor lists".

Re: Tell HN: Tech Recruiters have no clue

#15

Post by hcho »

briandon wrote: post #4

Her insistence on getting managers for references makes me wonder whether she wasn't mining you for new prospective customers (on the employer side).

She definetely was. It's the oldest trick in the book of recruitment. She first got herself 2 UK CVs and went for more.

There was probably no job, and she was doing "market research".

Re: Tell HN: Tech Recruiters have no clue

#16

Post by edw519 »

...i say to her that if the company likes the look of my CV then i'd be happy to provide references but i dont just hand out peoples details on a whim because i'd hate people to do that to me.

You are right. She is wrong. It's that simple.

To you, TamDenholm, and anyone else here at hn:

Feel free to use me as a technical reference whenever you run into this illogical and ridiculous road block. Just email me one line of code to print "Hello World" to the screen. If it is correct, I will happily tell the recruiter that 100% of everything I've ever seen you program was perfect. My contact info is in my profile.

Re: Tell HN: Tech Recruiters have no clue

#17

Post by alexwestholm »

You say you can't engage with your local community because you're not there, but what about online? You're participating in the HN community, which a) takes time, and b) may very well include others in that area. Branching out from here to find more location specific outlets shouldn't be too difficult.

(A very cursory search reveals startupcafe.co.uk, for instance)

Re: Tell HN: Tech Recruiters have no clue

#18

Post by britman »

koevet wrote: post #10

I have been freelancing in Europe for the last 10 years and I have learned to avoid recruiters as much as I can. In the last 4 years I have managed to get contracts through connections and skip middlemen all-together. It takes more time but it's rewarding. Few rules I use when I deal with recruiters (in Europe): 1) There are really an handful of recruitment companies with a good reputation and history. By default, I…

Complete agree with "If a recruiter insists in having references is a contacts-harvesting cowboy. Treat him like you would treat a zombie. I only give references after the initial interview."

They're always fishing for people (a major alarm bell should be if they're asking for hiring managers or persons of authority) who they can then spam with offers of services.

Re: Tell HN: Tech Recruiters have no clue

#19

Post by geekdesigngirl »

I've just started working with a recruiter a former manager introduced me to. While I appreciate what they are doing, as jrockway pointed out with playing hardball regarding salary, I often feel that they don't have any interest in me whatsoever. Communication is, at best, sporadic and every time I've been to their office, I hear a bunch of yelling, see paper airplanes flying and general lackadaisical attitudes.

This is my first experience with a recruiter and I can't say I'd recommend it to anyone. It's much better to market one's self than to rely on others, even if they can negotiate a better salary.

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