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Python gets a new governance model

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11–20 of 191 posts

Re: Python gets a new governance model

#11

Councils, committees, multiple obtuse voting systems, governance documents, 'courts' of appeal... Why are they so keen to construct such a grim bureaucracy for themselves?

Zizek is famous for pursuing a line very much against the grain; people intellectually similar to him argue for a society organised informally and locally, like a commune - but he argues that he'd rather be living in a bureaucracy in which he doesn't have to worry about all the smallest decisions and direct democracy. To him, the trouble of the USSR wasn't all the bureaucracy, it was that it wasn't bureaucratic enoug…

> Zizek

Who? This person? [1] I'm at a loss. Could you explain what this has to do with this topic?

From what I understand it seems to be in agreement with the principles of Hakim Bey's Temporary Autonomous Zone [2].

"The book describes the socio-political tactic of creating temporary spaces that elude formal structures of control.[1] The essay uses various examples from history and philosophy, all of which suggest that the best way to create a non-hierarchical system of social relationships is to concentrate on the present and on releasing one's own mind from the controlling mechanisms that have been imposed on it.

In the formation of a TAZ, Bey argues, information becomes a key tool that sneaks into the cracks of formal procedures. A new territory of the moment is created that is on the boundary line of established regions. Any attempt at permanence that goes beyond the moment deteriorates to a structured system that inevitably stifles individual creativity. It is this chance at creativity that is real empowerment."

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavoj_%C5%BDi%C5%BEek

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporary_Autonomous_Zone

Re: Python gets a new governance model

#13

Councils, committees, multiple obtuse voting systems, governance documents, 'courts' of appeal... Why are they so keen to construct such a grim bureaucracy for themselves?

Two common and tested-in-practice voting systems: one to select members of a group, one to decide between multiple options inside that group (which isn't the same problem, so it makes sense to vote differently). One committee to replace what before was a BDFL who resigned and thus needs to be replaced, ideally in a way that doesn't make discussions worse than they are (so transparency and clearly defined rules for edge cases are important. A BDFL can afford to be somewhat intransparent and inconsistent, an elected group can not)

Re: Python gets a new governance model

#14
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know if council members can be re-elected? Does "new council" imply a brand new set of council members? If so wouldn't that hurt institutional knowledge?

> Do you know if council members can be re-elected? Yes, they can, and likely will be in many cases.

Thanks, that's what I figured. So the vote would be a formality most of the time and not something revolutionary.

Re: Python gets a new governance model

#15

> Steering council members will serve for the length of single Python feature release; after each release, a new council will be elected. Won‘t that get old really soon?

Do you know if council members can be re-elected? Does "new council" imply a brand new set of council members? If so wouldn't that hurt institutional knowledge?

Because in any discussion about "new councils" ever, it never means that the entire council would be different. Be it a parliament, city council, a church committee, or a software project — the point isn't who is in it or for how long but rather that an election (or any other sort of opportunity for rearrangement) has been held.

"New council", in this circumstance, is shorthand for "holding an election for the council".

Re: Python gets a new governance model

#18

Councils, committees, multiple obtuse voting systems, governance documents, 'courts' of appeal... Why are they so keen to construct such a grim bureaucracy for themselves?

The alternative to explicit rules, hierarchies and power structures usually isn't harmonious self-organization; it is unspoken rules, implicit hierarchies and hidden power structures.

Re: Python gets a new governance model

#19
post #12

Councils, committees, multiple obtuse voting systems, governance documents, 'courts' of appeal... Why are they so keen to construct such a grim bureaucracy for themselves?

That's how societies work. Informal organizatios are not transparent.

The grandparent comment wasn't about formal replacing informal, it was about bureaucracy replacing dictatorship.

I don't think that's always a good thing. If the organization has some urgent goal, like winning a war or putting a man on the Moon, some dictatorship is needed to keep bureaucracy in check. But when there's no more urgent goal than well-being of the organization's members, that's when dictatorship fades and the subcommittees begin to sprout.

Re: Python gets a new governance model

#20
post #18

Councils, committees, multiple obtuse voting systems, governance documents, 'courts' of appeal... Why are they so keen to construct such a grim bureaucracy for themselves?

The alternative to explicit rules, hierarchies and power structures usually isn't harmonious self-organization; it is unspoken rules, implicit hierarchies and hidden power structures.

I think a new BFDL would be a worse-is-better solution than all this play-government formality, to be honest. It seems to be an effective system for many languages, including Python in the past.
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