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Can a keto diet reverse diabetes?

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Re: Can a keto diet reverse diabetes?

#11

Post by tomhoward »

throwaway8879 wrote: post #8
splatt wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fung is a quack.

Agreed. I've read his book on diabetes and intermittent fasting. I have a problem with anybody who makes the claim that there is more to weight loss than "calories in calories out". There isn't.

That sounds like a beg-the-question dismissal.

Why must the body adhere to a reductionist calories-in/calories-out model as if it’s a simple furnace, when it’s clearly vastly different from a furnace?

Why the need to ignore the involvement of neurotransmitters, hormones, enzymes, organ function, emotions, microbiotas, inflammation, and countless other inter-related components and processes that would easily explain why metabolism differs so much from one person to another, as distinct from furnaces that all combust in the same way?

I mean, sure, calories-in/calories-out is ultimately right when you reduce everything down, but why the need to wave away the influence of the above factors on the flow of calories in and calories out?

Re: Can a keto diet reverse diabetes?

#12

Post by tonysdg »

tomhoward wrote: post #11
throwaway8879 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I've read his book on diabetes and intermittent fasting. I have a problem with anybody who makes the claim that there is more to weight loss than "calories in calories out". There isn't.

That sounds like a beg-the-question dismissal. Why must the body adhere to a reductionist calories-in/calories-out model as if it’s a simple furnace, when it’s clearly vastly different from a furnace? Why the need to ignore the involvement of neurotransmitters, hormones, enzymes, organ function, emotions, microbiotas, inflammation, and countless other inter-related components and processes that would easily explain w…

Presumably (and I'm partially speculating here, since it's not my expertise) because all of the neurotransmitters, hormones, etc. pay heed to the same laws of thermodynamics that everything else does.

Your genes may influence how many calories you burn, the foods you eat may influence how full you feel, your hormones may influence where fat develops and disappears -- but thermodynamics require that if you expend more energy than you take in, the difference will have to come from somewhere, and that's ultimately how weight loss works.

Re: Can a keto diet reverse diabetes?

#13

Post by tomhoward »

tonysdg wrote: post #12
tomhoward wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a beg-the-question dismissal. Why must the body adhere to a reductionist calories-in/calories-out model as if it’s a simple furnace, when it’s clearly vastly different from a furnace? Why the need to ignore the involvement of neurotransmitters, hormones, enzymes, organ function, emotions, microbiotas, inflammation, and countless other inter-related components and processes that would easily explain w…

Presumably (and I'm partially speculating here, since it's not my expertise) because all of the neurotransmitters, hormones, etc. pay heed to the same laws of thermodynamics that everything else does. Your genes may influence how many calories you burn, the foods you eat may influence how full you feel, your hormones may influence where fat develops and disappears -- but thermodynamics require that if you expend more…

Yep, I acknowledged that in the last sentence of my comment.

My point is it's not at all simple, and it's certainly not as simple as the "calories-in/calories-out" mob claim. If it were so simple, obesity, diabetes and other metabolic disorders wouldn't be the widespread and profound problems that they are.

And my larger point is that the "calories-in/calories-out" call is a euphemistic way of trolling people who suffer these conditions.

Re: Can a keto diet reverse diabetes?

#14

Post by raphaels7 »

foxyv wrote: post #2

If you want to reverse diabetes you need at least some fasting. Keto can do a heck of a lot to help, however the incretin effect will cause insulin levels to increase during mealtimes sabotaging the necessary reduction in insulin resistance for your liver and pancreas. Dr. Jason Fung, a kidney specialist, runs an intensive dietary management program in Canada and has written a book called "The Diabetes Code" that des…

Hi foxyv, I'm the co-founder of Nutrita and wanted to say your comment is spot on. Dr.Fung and his IDM clinic are getting amazing results. We're big fans of theirs

Re: Can a keto diet reverse diabetes?

#15

Post by karmakaze »

lucas_membrane wrote: post #4

'Reverse' is quite a strong term to use in this context. I do not find 'reverse' in the medical dictionary, but when medical articles talk about reversing alzheimer's, for example, that means undoing the damage that it has already done to the central nervous system. Can a keto diet undo the damage that diabetes has already done to someone's blood vessels, nerves, eyes, kidneys, etc? Better verb for what diet can do f…

I see what you mean but I didn't have a problem with the non-technical usage of 'reverse' taking it to mean 'reverse the progression' of type-2 diabetes. Perhaps 'neutralize' would be a better choice.
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