Ko – A concurrent, immutable, functional language • Hacker News Board

Re: Ko – A concurrent, immutable, functional language

#11

Post by kyleperik » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 4:26 PM UTC

I love the generic function aspect of this, where there aren't necessarily specific inputs or outputs. This will make code reusable by factors. A simple use being not needing to define both `toRadians` and `toDegrees`, just definite the relationship. But I believe this can be taken to the point of getting backpropagation for free once forward propagation is defined in neural networks.

Not to steal any thunder, but I've been prototyping a language very built on this idea.

https://git.kyleperik.com/kyle/judo

Re: Ko – A concurrent, immutable, functional language

#12

Post by choeger » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 4:33 PM UTC

But what's its type discipline? H/M polymorphism? Overloading? Subtyping?

How is it evaluating? Eager? Lazy?

What values are supported? Records? What flavor? Modules?

Re: Ko – A concurrent, immutable, functional language

#13

Post by Eli_P » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 4:42 PM UTC

What's the main advantage of Ko over Go and Pony[1]? I never coded in any of them, but looks interesting.

[1] https://www.ponylang.io/discover/

Re: Ko – A concurrent, immutable, functional language

#14

Post by nine_k » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 4:42 PM UTC

heavenlyhash wrote: post #9

Interesting. Random observations in no particular order: - The simple assignment syntax looks somewhat procedural and is easy to read in small hunks at a time, but is still functional. I like this. This meshes well with the very real limits of how the human brain can parse things. - I wish there were type declarations. There's a type system, but it seems to be all inference. Type declarations just at the function inp…

Yes, type declarations are documentation, and tell me about as much, or more, about a function than its name, when reading e.g. Haskell code. They are a necessary usability feature.

Re: Ko – A concurrent, immutable, functional language

#15

Post by vmchale » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 4:48 PM UTC

Is this a research language? I don't understand how this offers anything beyond what already exists.

I'm also suspicious of the fact that it's implemented in Go. I would think that someone who knew functional programming well enough to create a new language would implement the language in Haskell or OCaml or even Standard ML.

Also the type system looks pretty bad. No algebraic data types.

Re: Ko – A concurrent, immutable, functional language

#16

Post by pulsarpietro » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 4:56 PM UTC

Y.A.U.L.

Re: Ko – A concurrent, immutable, functional language

#17

Post by neuland » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 4:58 PM UTC

yiyus wrote: post #2

There is not a single example in the README. I checked the step-by-step guide, but it starts with installation and documentation instructions, then imports, and I don't know yet how the language feels like. Ok, let's check that handbook then. Computation model, type system, ... Please, I just want to see a program with a dozen lines of code to see what it looks like. Of course, more extended examples with the intende…

This was my first reaction too. There are also no links between the steps. So, you have to go back and click to the next step from the file list.

Re: Ko – A concurrent, immutable, functional language

#18

Post by heavenlyhash » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 5:00 PM UTC

vmchale wrote: post #15

Is this a research language? I don't understand how this offers anything beyond what already exists. I'm also suspicious of the fact that it's implemented in Go. I would think that someone who knew functional programming well enough to create a new language would implement the language in Haskell or OCaml or even Standard ML. Also the type system looks pretty bad. No algebraic data types.

> would implement the language in {foo}

If that choice becomes perceivable to anyone but the authors and maintainers of the language itself, I'd say that's a first class failing, isn't it?

The quality of a language should be a pure function of the language itself; the interpreter doesn't (or rather, shouldn't) enter into it.

Re: Ko – A concurrent, immutable, functional language

#19

Post by Blackthorn » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 5:10 PM UTC

vmchale wrote: post #15

Is this a research language? I don't understand how this offers anything beyond what already exists. I'm also suspicious of the fact that it's implemented in Go. I would think that someone who knew functional programming well enough to create a new language would implement the language in Haskell or OCaml or even Standard ML. Also the type system looks pretty bad. No algebraic data types.

What a bizarre criticism. Most of the newer popular functional languages aren't implemented in those, but rather Java, and for the same reason given in the readme for Go.

Re: Ko – A concurrent, immutable, functional language

#20

Post by desireco42 » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 5:14 PM UTC

yiyus wrote: post #2

There is not a single example in the README. I checked the step-by-step guide, but it starts with installation and documentation instructions, then imports, and I don't know yet how the language feels like. Ok, let's check that handbook then. Computation model, type system, ... Please, I just want to see a program with a dozen lines of code to see what it looks like. Of course, more extended examples with the intende…

Thank you for linking to example, I has same thoughts.

Also, looking at installation instructions, it is bootstrapped by Go, so it does seem it is still in some prototype phase.

I would say, let's give them a year or two.

Language, as language, looks clear enough for me, but it is hard to judge from little I saw.