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The Unified Theory of Ram Dass

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Re: The Unified Theory of Ram Dass

#11
I've always been conflicted by these gurus, so let me play devil's advocate and present some things I found when I researched Ram Dass / Neem Karoli Baba a while ago:

http://www.strippingthegurus.com/stgsamplechapters/dass.html

Some interesting tales by Ram Dass about how Neem Karoli read his mind, ingested ginormous amounts of LSD without any effect, etc; here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb2BWvRN090

The specific story about the Baba reading Ram Dass' mind and informing him that he was thinking about his mother and that she had died of spleen failure stayed with me. Maybe he was informed the previous night that a Professor from the US was arriving whose mother died recently of spleen failure and the rest was about creating an illusion of omniscience?

In any case, a large number of these gurus turn out to be sexual predators, and it is absolutely crushing to those who follow them to discover this.

UG "masturbation is better than meditation" Krishnamurti was a much needed respite from these masters of bullshit for me, personally.

Re: The Unified Theory of Ram Dass

#12
post #3

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2516424/ is an interesting documentary about the complicated, ambivalent relationship between Alpert and Leary, made when Leary was dying. Leary, characteristically, turned his death into a spectacle, but I find Alpert the more interesting of the two.

I highly recommend How To Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan. He convincingly illustrates how detrimental to serious research were Leary and his penchant for the spectacular.

Pollan also gave credit to the fact that Leary did bring psychedelics into pop culture in a major way, which has had some detrimental effects on serious study, but near the end of the book also acknowledged that on the flipside, all that exposure means currently a lot more people may be interested in serious study than there might be otherwise. I do appreciate Pollan's earnest attempts at considering many sides of an issue.

edit: pronoun clarifications

Re: The Unified Theory of Ram Dass

#13
post #3

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2516424/ is an interesting documentary about the complicated, ambivalent relationship between Alpert and Leary, made when Leary was dying. Leary, characteristically, turned his death into a spectacle, but I find Alpert the more interesting of the two.

I highly recommend How To Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan. He convincingly illustrates how detrimental to serious research were Leary and his penchant for the spectacular.

I wholeheartedly second the recommendation. I also want to point out that Pollan's treatment of Leary's influence is certainly more nuanced than that. Here's a key quote:

> When I asked Rick Doblin if he worries about another backlash, he pointed out that our culture has come a long way from the 1960s and has shown a remarkable ability to digest a great many of the cultural novelties first cooked up during that era.

“That was a very different time. People wouldn’t even talk about cancer or death then. Women were tranquilized to give birth; men weren’t allowed in the delivery room! Yoga and meditation were totally weird. Now mindfulness is mainstream and everyone does yoga, and there are birthing centers and hospices all over. We’ve integrated all these things into our culture. And now I think we’re ready to integrate psychedelics.”

Doblin points out that many of the people now in charge of our institutions are of a generation well acquainted with these molecules. This, he suggests, is the true legacy of Timothy Leary. It’s all well and good for today’s researchers to disdain his “antics” and blame him for derailing the first wave of research, and yet, as Doblin points out with a smile, “there would be no second wave if Leary hadn’t turned on a whole generation.” Indeed. Consider the case of Paul Summergrad, who has spoken publicly of his own youthful use of psychedelics. In a videotaped interview with Ram Dass that was shown at the 2015 meeting of the American Psychiatric Association, he told his colleagues that an acid trip he took in college had been formative in his intellectual development. (Jeffrey Lieberman, another past president of the American Psychiatric Association, has also written of the insights gleaned from his youthful experiments with LSD.)

Re: The Unified Theory of Ram Dass

#14
post #6
post #4

I had his Be Here Now book in University. I didn't know he had a podcast. I'll have to add it. I had a friend I was tripping on acid with, back in grad school, and he picked up the Be Here Now book, read the intro and said, "Wait, did he seriously change his name to 'Rammed ass?!'" .. I've always wondered about his intent after that. :-P

Ram Dass (dāsa=devotee (of Lord Rama)). You might have known other people with similar last name (eg: Anil Dash). The most common pronunciation is "Das"

Why does anyone feel the need to take on a new name just because you change your religion? I never understood that. I have had epiphanies that dramatically changed my world-view, but I never thought "Now I must take a new name". I'm not criticizing those who do this, since people change their names all the time anyway, but I'm genuinely curious why this phenomenon is so common when people change their religion?

Re: The Unified Theory of Ram Dass

#15
post #3

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2516424/ is an interesting documentary about the complicated, ambivalent relationship between Alpert and Leary, made when Leary was dying. Leary, characteristically, turned his death into a spectacle, but I find Alpert the more interesting of the two.

That turning his death into a spectacle was something to witness. I remember going to various underground night clubs in the Los Angeles area around the time of his death, and he would be in the club, literally in a hospital bed. People would be doing a meet and greet type of procession line, where he'd share any drugs offered and was generally one of those "I can't believe it" head shaking moments, but repeated for months.

Re: The Unified Theory of Ram Dass

#16
post #9
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the message is beautiful. I do have reservations however about gurus, in that the ones I'm aware of tend to live in isolated places where they are worshiped. I feel like it's easy to love and support others when you have peace, quiet, love and support in abundance around you. I'd like to see how these individuals operate in higher stress situations and if they've really perfected the art of love or if it…

Agreed. A lot of famous gurus are just very charismatic people that live a very nice life and don't really have to deal with the drudgeries of the life most regular people live. When you look under the cover a lot of them are abusive and really not nice people. I think there are only very few people that are really spiritually enlightened and they are not necessarily the famous gurus. I know nothing about Ram Dad's b…

I agree with you, but I don't necessarily see a conflict between someone "teaching" me (what a guru basically is: a teacher, in a way) and other facets of their personality.

I've had many teachers that were superb at imparting their lessons while living with the foibles and flaws of being real people. You take what you need from the teacher and move on.

An example in popular culture: someone like Bill Cosby, who I am sure influenced countless people to be better people. Well, it turned out that he had major problems (to put it mildly!). Does that negate the "lessons" that he imparted in another aspect of his life? I would argue no.

I know you aren't negating this argument in your post, but I just wanted to say this and chose your post to glom onto! :)

Re: The Unified Theory of Ram Dass

#17
post #4

I had his Be Here Now book in University. I didn't know he had a podcast. I'll have to add it. I had a friend I was tripping on acid with, back in grad school, and he picked up the Be Here Now book, read the intro and said, "Wait, did he seriously change his name to 'Rammed ass?!'" .. I've always wondered about his intent after that. :-P

He should have spelled it "DAAS" instead of "DASS", because DAAS is how it's supposed to be pronounced.

Re: The Unified Theory of Ram Dass

#18
I have always enjoyed listening to recordings of Ram Dass at various points during his life (much more than I've enjoyed his writings). I have issues with a lot of his beliefs at various points, but his compassion always shines through and I feel like he is being honest with his listeners about his experience of his spiritual journey, even if sometimes he is seeing things through muddy waters. He is imperfect, and searching, and he is very generous and genuine in sharing his experiences. I don't usually feel like I am getting grand truths from him, other than the insight into one seeker's subjective (and powerful) experiences.
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