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Common-Knowledge Attacks on Democracy

papers.ssrn.com

11–20 of 136 posts

Re: Common-Knowledge Attacks on Democracy

#11
post #4

Ya, i've been saying something like this for a while. China, for instance, is uniquely in vulnerable to this sort of attack. Because the state is already in charge of censoring information, it is much more difficult to flood them with misinformation. It's one of the many reasons i'm concerned that models like Chinas will actually flourish more than they otherwise would in the coming years.

They may be less vulnerable to attacks from outsiders, but they are much more vulnerable to attacks from their own government. It's similar to totalitarian governments; they might keep organized crime low, but they expose people to far more crime from the government itself.

I would expect people in China and in the Chinese government to also be more vulnerable to misleading and suboptimal information, because there is a lack of competing ideas.

Re: Common-Knowledge Attacks on Democracy

#12
We are strongly concerned with accuracy (correctness, completeness, consistency) on the network layers but I've been thinking that we need to apply the same emphasis to accuracy on the data layer. We'd never accept the data layer's error rate on the network layer.

Another way of looking at it: We do emphasize accuracy in data in business databases - again, we'd never accept the error rate common in 'general' information. Why don't we put the same emphasis on data elsewhere?

Re: Common-Knowledge Attacks on Democracy

#13
post #4

Ya, i've been saying something like this for a while. China, for instance, is uniquely in vulnerable to this sort of attack. Because the state is already in charge of censoring information, it is much more difficult to flood them with misinformation. It's one of the many reasons i'm concerned that models like Chinas will actually flourish more than they otherwise would in the coming years.

They may be less vulnerable to attacks from outsiders, but they are much more vulnerable to attacks from their own government. It's similar to totalitarian governments; they might keep organized crime low, but they expose people to far more crime from the government itself. I would expect people in China and in the Chinese government to also be more vulnerable to misleading and suboptimal information, because there i…

>They may be less vulnerable to attacks from outsiders, but they are much more vulnerable to attacks from their own government. It's similar to totalitarian governments

Interesting that you say that about China, because that was exactly Bruce Schneier's conclusion about the United States:

>Our research implies that insider attacks from within American politics can be more pernicious than attacks from other countries.

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2018/11/propaganda_an...

Re: Common-Knowledge Attacks on Democracy

#14
post #4

Ya, i've been saying something like this for a while. China, for instance, is uniquely in vulnerable to this sort of attack. Because the state is already in charge of censoring information, it is much more difficult to flood them with misinformation. It's one of the many reasons i'm concerned that models like Chinas will actually flourish more than they otherwise would in the coming years.

Attempts to take this half-misinformation-flood style of propaganda into China are playing out in real time with Guo Wengui (and recently Steve Bannon, for some odd reason)

Edit:

For example https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/2174235/guo-wengui-a...

As for the actual attack surface he's trying to exploit, I'm not sure. As far as I can tell, it looks like the target is chinese expats & international students who have access to the uncensored internet

Re: Common-Knowledge Attacks on Democracy

#15
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They may be less vulnerable to attacks from outsiders, but they are much more vulnerable to attacks from their own government. It's similar to totalitarian governments; they might keep organized crime low, but they expose people to far more crime from the government itself. I would expect people in China and in the Chinese government to also be more vulnerable to misleading and suboptimal information, because there i…

>They may be less vulnerable to attacks from outsiders, but they are much more vulnerable to attacks from their own government. It's similar to totalitarian governments Interesting that you say that about China, because that was exactly Bruce Schneier's conclusion about the United States: >Our research implies that insider attacks from within American politics can be more pernicious than attacks from other countries.…

> Without any evidence whatsoever, he said that Democrats were trying to steal the election through "FRAUD."

Well, wait a minute - both of those races had already been called in favor of the Republican candidate on the night of the election until boxes and boxes of mysteriously Democrat-leaning ballots were suddenly found the following day... I think that constitutes evidence, even if it's not conclusive.

Re: Common-Knowledge Attacks on Democracy

#16
post #3

Link to discussion on Bruce Schneier's blog: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2018/11/propaganda_an...

The comments on that blog post are examples of the problem. They're diving straight into disagreements about matters of fact (like whether a party cheated in a particular election, and whether both sides cheat).

The point is that we're not (no longer) disagreeing about values, but about the facts, and that authoritarians are deliberately attempting to muddy the waters here. They're clearly succeeding, and the commenters seem to be distracted from that.

Re: Common-Knowledge Attacks on Democracy

#17
Ironic considering SSRN is owned by Elsevier, which is renown for trying to limit/control information for profit.

It even published fake journals to spread "fake news" ( aka ads ) for the pharmaceutical industry.

"The company has fought legislation designed to open up academic research, offered scholars money to file positive reviews, sued libraries for oversharing, and allegedly published fake journals on behalf of the pharmaceuticals industry."

https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/when-the...

Re: Common-Knowledge Attacks on Democracy

#18
I disagree, but I see the problems totally different. That is because I don't see the US as a democracy but as an oligarchy.

The whole problem with US implementation of democracy is that the actors are centralized around a system that encourages corruption. The corruption is due to the power and money that is governing politics.

And this again causes secrecy to hide the differences between the advertised politics and real practices. And to hide problems and responsibility within the political decisions.

The corruption and secrecy again causes the media to publish on actors in a very biased way. It is even seen as bad to be positive or unbiased on the policies or events. If something goes wrong it is always the other's fault.

The media earns now money by presenting the stories to support certain opinions and ideas. Not by presenting the complex and multifaceted reality. This is emphasized by the two party system. And sometimes also by the CIA propaganda system that is still active.

This goes so far that there is a lot of staging of the presentation of events. Which makes the news far more dramatic. But it also makes it fake, whether the story really happened or not. The media also tends to emphasize minor problems, just to trigger emotional reactions.

And then there is the problem of the over-militarization of the US government and its foreign policies. This is visible in the excessive amount of money going into this. And the huge amount of money lost in it. This gives the problem that the military and their corrupt sponsors rule the politics, instead of the people that are part of the democracy. It is also the reason why the military (&CIA) controls the media narrative on foreign politics so strongly.

The first step would be to get the money out of the politics. http://represent.us has a good way of doing that.

The media circus can be stopped by allowing more factions/parties and different viewpoints simultaneously. But that means stepping away from the two-party idea. That way different opinions become less hostile against each other. Separate military propaganda from the news. Now it is completely mixed up, because the military don't want to be unmasked.

That is opposite of what the paper seems to be stating.

"Stable autocracies will have common knowledge over who is in charge and their associated ideological or policy goals". In Europe the democratic parties have clear ideologies and goals. In the US this is not so much.

In the US it is clear that democrats or republicans are in charge, but neither represent the people. Both represent the companies and organizations that pay them.

If you want people to get more informed and involved with democracy, you need to decentralize the democracy. Make local people's votes count. And give people more autocracy/ self responsibility. That works in countries like Switzerland. In the US there is also a lot corruption on local levels. Give the people power and knowledge to stop that! That is democracy.

A major problem in the US is that many want to control how others live. They want to control what drugs they use, or how they reproduce (or not). Who pays for who. Often mixed with people paying money to certain companies and monopolies. This is politics directly against self-responsibility. Instead the politics should be directed towards cooperation and build-up in a way that encourages self-responsibility.

This is also represented in the information. Spread information that is self-responsible and cooperative, instead of information that is controlling, biased and/or emotional. For example: Wikipedia (even with its errors) helps the people around the world understand most of the world. But certain biased information sources also give information of how other people may be thinking. That way we understand each other, by learning more.

This is also complex and multifaceted. But it is something that people are very much interested in dealing with themselves.

I do not have a good idea, how the excessive military expenses and its influences can be reduced.

Re: Common-Knowledge Attacks on Democracy

#19
post #5

It'd be interesting to see a formal threat model of a Democracy like we write such documents for our applications and protocols.

If you have a lot of know-how about these threat models, I'd highly encourage you to write one for democracy as an idea. I'd love to read it!

Re: Common-Knowledge Attacks on Democracy

#20

Democracy is doomed, but not because of advanced attacks. Autocracy/nationalism/monarchy/etc are just the natural order of human societies. We've had a good run, but so did the Greeks and Romans.

To be fair, Italy and Greece are republics (for the umpteenth time) as of today.
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