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Ask HN: Can you actually get a dev job without doing a stupid quiz?

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Re: Ask HN: Can you actually get a dev job without doing a stupid quiz?

#11

Post by pthreadses »

AllegedAlec wrote: post #7
jurgenwerk wrote: post #6

Here is a repository of companies that don't force you into solving fizz buzz problems: https://github.com/poteto/hiring-without-whiteboards

Half of the companies on that list are even worse. Don't make me do a n-hour bit of homework without paying me for it.

Assuming n isn't very large, I don't see why. People will spend sometimes days in on-site interviews. A simple coding challenge can tell you a lot about a developer and provide a shared basis for discussion in a subsequent interview. Of course "build a CMS from scratch" is ridiculous but simple simulated bug fixing and small feature additions that mimic real life work can be quite useful and not time consuming.

Re: Ask HN: Can you actually get a dev job without doing a stupid quiz?

#12

Post by Gibbon1 »

GuiA wrote: post #8

Let me preface this by saying I despise whiteboarding as much as you do. I’ve been rejected from jobs dozens of time, and only got a handful of job offers in my ~10 year career so far. But - all interviews are, in essence, is an exercise in virtue signaling. Can you do the local dance to prove that you belong? If anything, whiteboard interviews are not the worst thing ever. I am from a Western European country, and m…

My first boss used to do a short quiz just to weed out anyone that was wasting his time and that was that. But of course programming culture is hypertoxic so that's been turned into the roommate interview scene in Shallow Grave.

Re: Ask HN: Can you actually get a dev job without doing a stupid quiz?

#14

Post by matell »

I am freelancing via Toptal, and you have to pass the entrance exams (which are hard and include live coding), but that is the last time you have to do it... at least that is my experience with 5 different contracts in last 3 years there.. after entering, no one asked me to pass some additional quiz. The clients there seem to trust the system -- i.e. once you are in, you passed the bar and there in no need to waste time testing your abilities again.

Re: Ask HN: Can you actually get a dev job without doing a stupid quiz?

#15

Post by thecleaner »

Look at it this way, how does someone verify that all the work done is by you ? Even if it is its not within everybody's range to test someone on code from 130 repositories. Just memorize the quiz nonsense, the market is asking for shit prep so give it to them.

Re: Ask HN: Can you actually get a dev job without doing a stupid quiz?

#16

Post by adim86 »

The developer evaluation process is broken, sometimes because the people hiring you do not even understand what you do and sometimes it is because what the interviewer is testing for is not properly communicated to the candidate for various reasons. The best way to get a job is to be in a developer community where you get referred to jobs and not by job searching online. This is how top-tier candidates get jobs in every industry, referrals, it cuts all the bullshit. So your goal should be to get to that level which means upping your social skills, that being said we all need to start from somewhere.

I wrote a post about this a couple weeks ago, on the disconnection between what an employer is looking for and what you (a developer) think they want. I hope it helps someone

http://blog.adimofunne.com/coding-interviews/

Re: Ask HN: Can you actually get a dev job without doing a stupid quiz?

#17

Post by JeanMarcS »

thecleaner wrote: post #15

Look at it this way, how does someone verify that all the work done is by you ? Even if it is its not within everybody's range to test someone on code from 130 repositories. Just memorize the quiz nonsense, the market is asking for shit prep so give it to them.

Isn't that true for any job ?

When you send your curriculum to recruiter, why should they believe you, whatever job your applying to ?

So if you start a relationship based on a non minimum trust, will it go well ?

Of course, this is all theorical, and how it should work on a perfect world, which this one isn't.

Re: Ask HN: Can you actually get a dev job without doing a stupid quiz?

#18

Post by jeffrallen »

Adults find their way through the world as it is, not how they want it to be. Grow up. When you've earned a bit of freedom from the stupid gatekeepers, you can do it your own way (entrepreneurship, networking, contacting, etc). For now, pay your dues.

Re: Ask HN: Can you actually get a dev job without doing a stupid quiz?

#19

Post by dasmoth »

jeffrallen wrote: post #18

Adults find their way through the world as it is, not how they want it to be. Grow up. When you've earned a bit of freedom from the stupid gatekeepers, you can do it your own way (entrepreneurship, networking, contacting, etc). For now, pay your dues.

I get what you're saying, but seems a little harsh. And also makes me think of:

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw.

Re: Ask HN: Can you actually get a dev job without doing a stupid quiz?

#20

Post by thepp1983 »

jeffrallen wrote: post #18

Adults find their way through the world as it is, not how they want it to be. Grow up. When you've earned a bit of freedom from the stupid gatekeepers, you can do it your own way (entrepreneurship, networking, contacting, etc). For now, pay your dues.

Personally I can't stand these tests either. I normally complete them fine.

However I've been to job interviews where they force me to code live in front of several people and I couldn't get half a line of code out before one of them will chip in with a "suggestion" breaking my train of thought. The code they want me to write is some algorithm that they have expected you to memorise.

I normally leave the interview frustrated and even when offered the job I turned them down because the hiring process has given me a bad taste.

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