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Revisiting the West's view of China internet censorship

nytimes.com

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Re: Revisiting the West's view of China internet censorship

#11

Post by bilbo0s »

woolvalley wrote: post #10
bilbo0s wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whether or not this will translate to commercial success outside the protective walled garden is questionable... Is that something the party cares about? (The Communist Party I mean). Serious question. How interested are they in having Americans or Bolivians or whatever engage in the daily use of Chinese internet sites and apps? My sense is that they don't really care about that. It seems that it's more a priority…

Well if you want to make money from those other people, or have easier access to whats happening in the world globally, yes.

>Well if you want to make money from those other people, or have easier access to whats happening in the world globally...

Here's the thing though, those people can buy tires or pants made in China, WITHOUT using Chinese websites.

I seriously don't think they care if we use Baidu or not. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the party would PREFER that we NOT use Baidu.

Re: Revisiting the West's view of China internet censorship

#12

Post by eiaoa »

bilbo0s wrote: post #11
woolvalley wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if you want to make money from those other people, or have easier access to whats happening in the world globally, yes.

> Well if you want to make money from those other people, or have easier access to whats happening in the world globally... Here's the thing though, those people can buy tires or pants made in China, WITHOUT using Chinese websites. I seriously don't think they care if we use Baidu or not. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the party would PREFER that we NOT use Baidu.

> I seriously don't think they care if we use Baidu or not. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the party would PREFER that we NOT use Baidu.

If the world used Baidu, it would be a propaganda coup for the CCP. They'd have the ability to disappear information they want to suppress (like criticism of the camps in Xinjiang), and freely push propaganda and disinformation (a la https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Infektion).

Think about it: if the web existing in the 1980s and the Soviets controlled the world's main search engine, the top results for "AIDS" would be disinformation articles about how the US government created it.

So, I'm sure the CCP would like the world to use Baidu, but it might not be high on their list of priorities to push right now.

Re: Revisiting the West's view of China internet censorship

#13

Post by StudentStuff »

eiaoa wrote: post #12
bilbo0s wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well if you want to make money from those other people, or have easier access to whats happening in the world globally... Here's the thing though, those people can buy tires or pants made in China, WITHOUT using Chinese websites. I seriously don't think they care if we use Baidu or not. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the party would PREFER that we NOT use Baidu.

> I seriously don't think they care if we use Baidu or not. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the party would PREFER that we NOT use Baidu. If the world used Baidu, it would be a propaganda coup for the CCP. They'd have the ability to disappear information they want to suppress (like criticism of the camps in Xinjiang), and freely push propaganda and disinformation (a la https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Infe…

> if the web existing in the 1980s and the Soviets controlled the world's main search engine, the top results for "AIDS" would be disinformation articles about how the US government created it.

Soviets tended to play up the bad points in their propaganda, so it would likely be pushing images and videos of people suffering with AIDS, captioned with "American pigs aren't researching or treating this mass epidemic ripping through their capitalist stronghold".

The sad part is such propaganda would be fairly accurate, for most of the 1970s and 1980s our government stood by and let people die of AIDS, not funding research or pushing safe sex education, feeding the epidemic.

Re: Revisiting the West's view of China internet censorship

#14

Post by eiaoa »

StudentStuff wrote: post #13
eiaoa wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I seriously don't think they care if we use Baidu or not. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the party would PREFER that we NOT use Baidu. If the world used Baidu, it would be a propaganda coup for the CCP. They'd have the ability to disappear information they want to suppress (like criticism of the camps in Xinjiang), and freely push propaganda and disinformation (a la https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Infe…

> if the web existing in the 1980s and the Soviets controlled the world's main search engine, the top results for "AIDS" would be disinformation articles about how the US government created it. Soviets tended to play up the bad points in their propaganda, so it would likely be pushing images and videos of people suffering with AIDS, captioned with "American pigs aren't researching or treating this mass epidemic rippi…

> Soviets tended to play up the bad points in their propaganda, so it would likely be pushing images and videos of people suffering with AIDS

Soviets tended to play up the bad points in their propaganda, so it would likely be pushing images and videos of people suffering with AIDS, captioned with "American pigs aren't researching or treating this mass epidemic ripping through their capitalist stronghold".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Infektion

Re: Revisiting the West's view of China internet censorship

#15

Post by shanghaiaway »

StudentStuff wrote: post #5
devy wrote: post #3

Eric Shcmidt made some bold forecast echoing some of this sentiment in a September private VC event.[1] [1]: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/20/eric-schmidt-ex-google-ceo-p...

There are two distinct internets already, getting bandwidth to move data in and out of China is an expensive proposition, combined with the Great Firewall makes it such that domestic companies have significant advantages compared to overseas competitors. Those domestic companies seem to be starting to innovate on their own, though there is quite a bit of back and forth between US researchers and their counterparts in…

There's far more than two internets.

Russian, Japanese, Chinese, South Korean, German, French, Italian, Brazilian. And on and on.

Re: Revisiting the West's view of China internet censorship

#17

Post by code_duck »

vokep wrote: post #16
pochamago wrote: post #8

I think they make a good point about how the laxness of China's intellectual property laws is a boon to consumers, and maybe innovation.

Why make anything if someone is going to just steal it?

Because them stealing it doesn’t entirely deprive you of it since it’s IP

Re: Revisiting the West's view of China internet censorship

#18

Post by bassman9000 »

code_duck wrote: post #17
vokep wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why make anything if someone is going to just steal it?

Because them stealing it doesn’t entirely deprive you of it since it’s IP

If you're yet looking for a place to manufacture it, when they have already stolen the IP, and are beginning to produce it, you've lost already. It doesn't matter you have the IP if China doesn't respect it.

Re: Revisiting the West's view of China internet censorship

#19

Post by yumraj »

code_duck wrote: post #17
vokep wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why make anything if someone is going to just steal it?

Because them stealing it doesn’t entirely deprive you of it since it’s IP

Yes, it does. IP has value.

You create IP to generate value from it. When someone steals IP you lose value that you should have derived from it.

Theft is theft, whether of IP or otherwise. And a thief is a thief, whether of tangible product or IP.

Re: Revisiting the West's view of China internet censorship

#20

Post by woolvalley »

bilbo0s wrote: post #11
woolvalley wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if you want to make money from those other people, or have easier access to whats happening in the world globally, yes.

> Well if you want to make money from those other people, or have easier access to whats happening in the world globally... Here's the thing though, those people can buy tires or pants made in China, WITHOUT using Chinese websites. I seriously don't think they care if we use Baidu or not. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the party would PREFER that we NOT use Baidu.

You do realize there is a lot of money in software services correct? It's not about selling pants, it's about selling ads and digital products to the rest of the world, like sillicon valley. Baidu, tencent, alibaba, xiaomi, etc are some of the largest tech companies in the world and thats with most of their business in China.

Not to mention the enhancement in global surveillance it would give the CCP.

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