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Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

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Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#11
post #7

This seems related to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18383553 (Microsoft Beats Amazon in 12-Month Cloud Revenue), where this point was discussed almost endlessly: > These numbers are very misleading considering they wrap up things like Office into “cloud revenue.”

And as discussed to death in the linked thread, what Microsoft should've done instead? Excluded Office from the cloud revenue, simply because Amazon didn't make as much money from their own office productivity suite (but still included it in their cloud revenue numbers)? MSFT used cloud revenue metrics consistent with those of the competitors (Amazon and Google), which is the proper way to do it, imo.

I guess it would be more comparable if they split out IaaS/PaaS/SaaS although probably no company wants to do that.

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#12
post #5

Touching on big G trying to catch up - I've recently had some issues with GCP and while the addition of more accessible support (you can now reach some support person relatively easy) it helps little unless it's a request that they can handle with a single button press. While it now FEELS less frustrating as you have somebody to talk to, it doesn't help that I have an issue that is being ping-ponged around different…

Explain, how it is horrible from a tech perspective? (hint: it's not) Edit: I'm getting downvoted, but no one as of yet has shown how Azure is built on horrible tech compared to its peers. It's just a flat lie, none of the big 3 are built on horrible tech. It's just being dishonest and is basically fanboyism/hatred of one party. You can argue about UI you like or don't (I prefer Azure) you can argue about APIs, their…

The UI is, um, lets say, very unconventional for non-windows folks. It is extremely sluggish compared to AWS or GCP. As in, each page takes several seconds+ to fully load vs AWS/GCP. Maybe this is just for me, or an IE vs Chrome issue or something, I'm not sure. The horizontal panning in the UI is pretty strange for the uninitiated too. Everyone else, the entire internet pretty much scrolls up/down on a web page but in Azure it's up/down + side-to-side + expanding panels with scroll. I'm not even sure where to look for things (scroll down or to the side). As far as the tech is concerned, I'm not sure but the first impression of the UI coming from another cloud provider just seems off. Typically, I use the UI to get the lay of the land before hitting the API or something. But, I suspect I'm not the target market since I've spent my entire career on the linux side of things.

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#13
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain, how it is horrible from a tech perspective? (hint: it's not) Edit: I'm getting downvoted, but no one as of yet has shown how Azure is built on horrible tech compared to its peers. It's just a flat lie, none of the big 3 are built on horrible tech. It's just being dishonest and is basically fanboyism/hatred of one party. You can argue about UI you like or don't (I prefer Azure) you can argue about APIs, their…

Their UIs and tooling are inconsistent and clunky. They kind of shove some of their tooling on to you as well. Obviously, my experience is rather shallow here and wouldn't dare go into too deep discussions on that. And the shoving part can easily be avoided with some extra elbow grease.

I've used all 3 major providers, and I am going to have to strongly disagree. Out of UI, Azure is far and above superior with AWS and GCS which are both confusing messes. That is literally the worst complaint I can even think of in regards to Azure.

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#14

This seems related to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18383553 (Microsoft Beats Amazon in 12-Month Cloud Revenue), where this point was discussed almost endlessly: > These numbers are very misleading considering they wrap up things like Office into “cloud revenue.”

Google also wraps GSuite into Cloud revenue, and Amazon wraps their competitor into Cloud revenue. So, it's not misleading.

What does Amazon offer for a cloud office suite though? I have never heard of one despite living in Seattle, where we see all kinds of failed Amazon expansions.

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#15
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their UIs and tooling are inconsistent and clunky. They kind of shove some of their tooling on to you as well. Obviously, my experience is rather shallow here and wouldn't dare go into too deep discussions on that. And the shoving part can easily be avoided with some extra elbow grease.

I've used all 3 major providers, and I am going to have to strongly disagree. Out of UI, Azure is far and above superior with AWS and GCS which are both confusing messes. That is literally the worst complaint I can even think of in regards to Azure.

What data do you have to support this? Just saying the UI is superior doesn't really mean anything. What is superior? Why? I'm honestly interested in knowing and not just being "that guy".

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#16
post #5

Touching on big G trying to catch up - I've recently had some issues with GCP and while the addition of more accessible support (you can now reach some support person relatively easy) it helps little unless it's a request that they can handle with a single button press. While it now FEELS less frustrating as you have somebody to talk to, it doesn't help that I have an issue that is being ping-ponged around different…

Explain, how it is horrible from a tech perspective? (hint: it's not) Edit: I'm getting downvoted, but no one as of yet has shown how Azure is built on horrible tech compared to its peers. It's just a flat lie, none of the big 3 are built on horrible tech. It's just being dishonest and is basically fanboyism/hatred of one party. You can argue about UI you like or don't (I prefer Azure) you can argue about APIs, their…

> (hint: it's not)

Speaking as an SRE who less than 1yr ago was tasked with evaluating public clouds as burstable capacity for our traditionally bare metal server infrastructure; this comment is flippant at best and harmful at worst.

Azure is absolutely not comparable to the others, their performance characteristics are nowhere near consistent between equivalent specification instances, their API's are equally inconsistent _and_ they have a terrible usability model on most of their services (not all, admittedly).

In fact when it comes to technical competence, I would (and did) rank Google #1. The drawbacks of Google are:

* It's google and they have a habit of sun-setting products.

* They don't have as many features as AWS.

* They don't have developer mindshare like AWS, meaning FOSS tools will almost always work flawlessly with AWS but rarely have support for GCP (or, if they do it is a little b0rk)

* Google tends not to give human support. (but this is alleviated if you're buying support contracts)

-

FWIW we chose google on technical merits alone, although my company is working with all three cloud providers in some fashion. Azure is the one we constantly mock internally for their absolutely maddening warts. Almost as bad as our own internal "cloud". (providing cloud services is not my companies core competence to be fair)

----

Digression;

I would assume that a big chunk of Microsofts cloud money is coming from office365. I know my company recently started paying them in the order of 10's of millions of dollars, I assume others would too as this is "the future" of microsoft exchange/sharepoint etc;

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used all 3 major providers, and I am going to have to strongly disagree. Out of UI, Azure is far and above superior with AWS and GCS which are both confusing messes. That is literally the worst complaint I can even think of in regards to Azure.

What data do you have to support this? Just saying the UI is superior doesn't really mean anything. What is superior? Why? I'm honestly interested in knowing and not just being "that guy".

In the same manner that you can reply and say it's "sluggish" and "confusing." You can deploy something in Azure using the UI far faster than you can deploy on GCS or AWS using strictly UI. In GCS, especially, it's hard to even tell where you even are or where to go back to where you were just seconds ago. They turned their new API dashboard to match the GCS dashboard too and it's basically impossible to find anything without clicking around or doing it so often you have it memorized. It's not inuitive. On AWS, spin up something on EBS and then spin something up on Azure's webapps using ONLY UI. Tell me which takes less time. The search feature on Azure also makes finding anything incredibly easy.

Further you can use Powershell (from the UI, no less,) if you are all about CLI.

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#18
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain, how it is horrible from a tech perspective? (hint: it's not) Edit: I'm getting downvoted, but no one as of yet has shown how Azure is built on horrible tech compared to its peers. It's just a flat lie, none of the big 3 are built on horrible tech. It's just being dishonest and is basically fanboyism/hatred of one party. You can argue about UI you like or don't (I prefer Azure) you can argue about APIs, their…

Their UIs and tooling are inconsistent and clunky. They kind of shove some of their tooling on to you as well. Obviously, my experience is rather shallow here and wouldn't dare go into too deep discussions on that. And the shoving part can easily be avoided with some extra elbow grease.

Agree with the other comment, all of the UIs are pretty difficult. Some things are simple once you know exactly what to click on and in what order, but if you don't it can just be brutal. Amazon seems pretty static, but if my experience with Google's Ad UI is any indicator they are just going to optimize things in the direction where the defaults maximize their own revenue and important parts get buried and eventually deprecated.

Ideally cloud compute remains a commodity resource and all players earn a standard and pretty average return on their capex..

My anecdote is to Warren Buffet - buy commodities and sell a branded product. Don't get caught in a trap where you build your product with unique cloud resources which you can not easily migrate to other platforms when the conditions calls for it (price, performance, or even support.) Right now, there may be endless VC dollars, but there are some markets where the long term winners are going to win because they are paying commodity pricing on all of their compute.

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#19
post #8

Microsoft will reap the rewards of supporting XP and Office for decades, that wins enterprise trust & goodwill, and clients will expect that from Azure. On the other hand, every month we have a new product/service of Google being deprecated (officially or by raising prices). Even if it's technically better, the most sane business decision from enterprise would be to bet on Microsoft for support reasons. Microsoft tal…

Where are you getting this "price hike" narrative for Google from? Google's presence in the cloud market is instrumental in across the board price drops.

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain, how it is horrible from a tech perspective? (hint: it's not) Edit: I'm getting downvoted, but no one as of yet has shown how Azure is built on horrible tech compared to its peers. It's just a flat lie, none of the big 3 are built on horrible tech. It's just being dishonest and is basically fanboyism/hatred of one party. You can argue about UI you like or don't (I prefer Azure) you can argue about APIs, their…

The UI is, um, lets say, very unconventional for non-windows folks. It is extremely sluggish compared to AWS or GCP. As in, each page takes several seconds+ to fully load vs AWS/GCP. Maybe this is just for me, or an IE vs Chrome issue or something, I'm not sure. The horizontal panning in the UI is pretty strange for the uninitiated too. Everyone else, the entire internet pretty much scrolls up/down on a web page but…

You can't bookmark things, and you can't middle/cmd+click to open in a new tab. AWS isn't much fun to use but Azure gets the basics of being a usable website wrong. Ugh.

I don't have familiarity with Google Cloud though. And in fairness I used Azure for a feature AWS didn't have anything close to (service bus queues), I can see why having really well built things like that get them huge deals. Microsoft know what they're doing in those markets.

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