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China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

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Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#11

Post by dpflan »

3pt14159 wrote: post #8
vslira wrote: post #7

Killer bots will be treated just like nukes: world powers will justify their investment in the technology by saying that the other side is also doing it, and when it becomes clear that there are only two or three powerful countries that can wield the technology, the "international treaties" will come barring everybody else from developing it. I'm not saying that everyone should have nukes, I'm saying the EU, US, Chin…

The problem is enforcement, not will. With nukes we can have inspectors and we can lock down uranium. Killbots are too diffuse and too multi-use. I'm all for arms control / non-proliferation, but I really don't see how it works for these things. Also, we already have weaponized AI. We have for decades. We're now talking about a matter of degree. I'm far, far more worried about the mass weaponization of civilian syste…

I'm intrigued. What do you need to in order to write your article?

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#12

Post by deadbunny »

wnkrshm wrote: post #2

If I recall correctly, DARPA regularly hosts challenges where university teams try to solve problems that clearly have military applications. I know this can be seen as whataboutism but I feel the Western world might have gotten desensitized to its own activities in the sector, while looking warily at possible geopolitical competitors.

China is the new big red threat, has been for a while now. No whataboutism about it, the US does the same shit but the fear of the other is still just as strong as ever.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#13

Post by kamaal »

beginningguava wrote: post #6
Communitivity wrote: post #3

The US does this with the DARPA Grand Challenge ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_Grand_Challenge ). I suspect other countries may be doing this through sponsoring/watching teams from their nation entering international competitions such as the Tech First Challenge ( http://business-review.eu/tag/first-tech-challenge-russia-op... ).

You don't see a difference between giving prize money to university teams vs recruiting children under the age of 18 and then putting them through a 4 year program where they are expected to enter AI research for military purposes and the candidates are explicitly vetted for loyalty to the government before entrance?

>>candidates are explicitly vetted for loyalty to the government before entrance?

In any country on earth, you be pretty much 'vetted for loyalty' before they let you close to their sensitive intelligence or tech related work.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#14

Post by api »

I'd like to point out that a lot of "defense" research ends up used primarily or even exclusively for things other than military applications. The military is used as a feeder for R&D because calling it defense is how you sell useful spending (and Keynesian stimulus) to conservatives. The US defense budget is full of only nominally defense R&D. This is probably as true in China as it is in the USA.

The US did this quite a bit, especially during the height of the Cold War. In fact you go could so far as to say that America's elite schools operate (or did at least then) as intellectual feeders for the defense industry.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089886/

(Ninja edited to add the top paragraph...)

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#15

Post by ForHackernews »

beginningguava wrote: post #9
vslira wrote: post #7

Killer bots will be treated just like nukes: world powers will justify their investment in the technology by saying that the other side is also doing it, and when it becomes clear that there are only two or three powerful countries that can wield the technology, the "international treaties" will come barring everybody else from developing it. I'm not saying that everyone should have nukes, I'm saying the EU, US, Chin…

Unfortunately I think there's a good chance humanity wipes itself out, or at least destroys civilization in the next several centuries. We are still effectively monkeys but have over time developed weapons that are capable of incredible destruction. The issue with regulating AI kill bots is that much of the technology that could be used for good like self-driving cars can also be weaponized. There's really no way to…

Why several centuries? We're already on track for +4°C by the end of this century.

No need to speculate about killer AI bots when you've got plain old famine, drought and resource wars.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#16

Post by virmundi »

beginningguava wrote: post #6
Communitivity wrote: post #3

The US does this with the DARPA Grand Challenge ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_Grand_Challenge ). I suspect other countries may be doing this through sponsoring/watching teams from their nation entering international competitions such as the Tech First Challenge ( http://business-review.eu/tag/first-tech-challenge-russia-op... ).

You don't see a difference between giving prize money to university teams vs recruiting children under the age of 18 and then putting them through a 4 year program where they are expected to enter AI research for military purposes and the candidates are explicitly vetted for loyalty to the government before entrance?

The Chinese are more efficient? Take an 18 year old, toss him or her into a college that does the challenge, get a job at one of the defense contractors later. The Chinese employee is able to do the same thing about 4 years earlier.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#17

Post by Nasrudith »

3pt14159 wrote: post #8
vslira wrote: post #7

Killer bots will be treated just like nukes: world powers will justify their investment in the technology by saying that the other side is also doing it, and when it becomes clear that there are only two or three powerful countries that can wield the technology, the "international treaties" will come barring everybody else from developing it. I'm not saying that everyone should have nukes, I'm saying the EU, US, Chin…

The problem is enforcement, not will. With nukes we can have inspectors and we can lock down uranium. Killbots are too diffuse and too multi-use. I'm all for arms control / non-proliferation, but I really don't see how it works for these things. Also, we already have weaponized AI. We have for decades. We're now talking about a matter of degree. I'm far, far more worried about the mass weaponization of civilian syste…

Sounds a bit like the Fermi Paradox and Drake Equations - while the math technically works out the missing terms make it useless on a practical level.

The possibility space is limited by sanity checks of the actors - technically a terror group could start putting live rattlesnakes into snake in a can prank devices on people's doorsteps but it would be logistically difficult and incredibly stupid.

Beyond that one interesting thing about attackers are how memetic they are over what is appealing to their personal image as opposed to effectiveness. Like the symbolism matters more.

Terrorists in the US could cause lasting damage and disruption by infrastructure attacks like going around and emptying a few AR-15 clips into unguarded transformers and substations or train track sabotage around oil freight trains yet they don't at all. Similarly looking at the historic trends between bombings vs mass shooting vs vehicular murder plots seems to be more cultural than availability related.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#18

Post by vezycash »

ryanmercer wrote: post #10

And this is why I'm glad Sam and Elon and everyone else started OpenAI. We need more people working towards benevolent AI/AGI to offer competition/opposition to state-funded AI/AGI that will almost certainly be used first and foremost for military applications.

I don't think OPENAI will make much difference. Companies & states will simply leech off OPENAI and copyright, trademark, patent or hide their own improvements.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#19

Post by natch »

China has cultivated in its people a very troubling mental complex centered on national pride and driven by the Century of Humiliation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation

To say they are fervent about righting the wrongs and perceived wrongs of the past is an understatement. It's pretty much a driving force of life with many people. It's a powerful dynamic. And it's one that's held close to the chest by Chinese students studying here in the US but in China it's freely talked about, written about, and taken for granted as the right thing.

On our (the west) side we also have racism and nationalism. But I think our more diverse (talking about points of view, not race here) and more activist anti-racism voices are a tempering force that China lacks.

Relating this to weaponization of AI, I think people like Stuart Russell are naive to think that watching Slaughterbots would give these students pause. On the contrary, it would excite them, because it's showing exactly the kind of thing they would be delighted to develop. Not that I know these students, but I'm aware how China drills bitterness into its people about their past humiliations, and uses this to develop racist nationalism. Pretty scary.

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