Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 328 posts

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#11

Post by ummonk »

jonlucc wrote: post #7
danans wrote: post #2

These e-scooters could be a really great way for many cities to decrease short-haul car dependency, but they really need to be off the sidewalks. A motor-propelled machine going 15 mph doesn't belong on the same surface as a baby stroller, a senior citizen, or a person with a disability. They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place), and their speed should be capped in areas of dense foot traff…

In my city, we have a small conundrum. The scooters move more like bikes than walkers, but the language on our bike trail system explicitly forbids any "motorized vehicles". Of course, reasonable people could argue that such a law can be ignored, but I know I'm risking a ticket if an officer so chooses. Also, bicyclists seem to seriously hate the scooters. I'm not entirely sure why, but it seems to be that they're ju…

Bicyclists don't want transportation systems that are more accessible to the general public.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#12

Post by danans »

jonlucc wrote: post #7
danans wrote: post #2

These e-scooters could be a really great way for many cities to decrease short-haul car dependency, but they really need to be off the sidewalks. A motor-propelled machine going 15 mph doesn't belong on the same surface as a baby stroller, a senior citizen, or a person with a disability. They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place), and their speed should be capped in areas of dense foot traff…

In my city, we have a small conundrum. The scooters move more like bikes than walkers, but the language on our bike trail system explicitly forbids any "motorized vehicles". Of course, reasonable people could argue that such a law can be ignored, but I know I'm risking a ticket if an officer so chooses. Also, bicyclists seem to seriously hate the scooters. I'm not entirely sure why, but it seems to be that they're ju…

> The scooters move more like bikes than walkers, but the language on our bike trail system explicitly forbids any "motorized vehicles"

If the bike lane laws disallow motorized vehicles, then how does the sidewalk law allow it? It sounds like the laws need to be updated to allowed motorized electric vehicles capable of going up to some reasonable maximum speed in the bike lane. Basically the inverse of the law that prevents mopeds and golf carts from going on the freeway today.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#13

Post by rock_hard »

the_watcher wrote: post #9
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place), and their speed should be capped in areas of dense foot traffic These are great ideas. Write them into your representatives. Designated street-side scooter parking would also be a plus. Not only does it signal to drivers "consider another option," it also deals with the scooter litter problem. (To form, San Francisco chose the worst of all option…

I was just in LA, and scooters are everywhere. However, they're all parked upright, and in most cases even organized into a nice, out of the sidewalk path, line (initially I thought that Bird/Lime/etc were paying people to do this, but I saw a mix of different brands aligned as often as just one). When they first launched in LA, this wasn't the case, it was just as much of a free for all as SF. SF succumbed to regula…

Same in Oakland

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#14

Post by hammock »

the_watcher wrote: post #6

I used Bird, Lime, Lyft, and Jump scooters over the weekend in LA and they were great for getting around when I'd have otherwise considered driving (over a 45 minute walk). I tried a Skip scooter again when I got back to SF, and once again, it simply could not handle a minor (for SF) hill. I don't know what the solution is, since it seems like a bad idea to power them more to handle hills given the dangers that would…

You probably got one with low battery. It's not possible to "overpower" them as you suggest because they have a governor that limits the top speed.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#15

Post by sudosteph »

danans wrote: post #2

These e-scooters could be a really great way for many cities to decrease short-haul car dependency, but they really need to be off the sidewalks. A motor-propelled machine going 15 mph doesn't belong on the same surface as a baby stroller, a senior citizen, or a person with a disability. They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place), and their speed should be capped in areas of dense foot traff…

I think it does depend on the city though. I'm really excited to try these out next time I'm in Charlotte or Raleigh. The sidewalk network in those places tends to be pretty lacking in the first place, and as a result, there are only a few spots with anything close to dense foot traffic on sidewalks. It's also usually a pretty long walk to anywhere due to everything being built at car-scale. If anything, I'm hopeful that the adoption of these may pave the way to a better side-walked future in cities like those.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#16

Post by ams6110 »

danans wrote: post #2

These e-scooters could be a really great way for many cities to decrease short-haul car dependency, but they really need to be off the sidewalks. A motor-propelled machine going 15 mph doesn't belong on the same surface as a baby stroller, a senior citizen, or a person with a disability. They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place), and their speed should be capped in areas of dense foot traff…

They just appeared seemingly overnight here recently. They seem quite popular, but aren't really practical on rainy days. Will see what happens when winter really hits. I can't imagine many people preferring them to a car on a snowy, slushy day or with temps below freezing. Also wondering how they'll handle salt exposure, and how the cold will affect battery life.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#17

Post by freehunter »

danans wrote: post #8
mattigames wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree it's an issue but I propose the opposite solution, meaning side-walk devices should go at max 10 mph. Talking about such, is there any data on accidents caused by e-scooters? (percentage wise e.g. vs bikes)

> meaning side-walk devices should go at max 10 mph. 10 mph is more than enough to injure someone on collision, especially if that person is frail. Average human walking speed is 3mph. Runners average 10mph, but a running human has a lot more control over their momentum than someone in a vehicle, because they are expending their own energy to move, rather than using an external propulsion system, and they aren't on w…

On the other hand, a 3,000lb car going 35mph is far far FAR more than enough to injure or more likely kill a human on a scooter if they're forced onto the roads.

If the only argument is one of how much damage would happen in the case of a collision, bikes and scooters belong with pedestrians and not with cars. We don't need to speculate what happens when a car hits a bicyclist, it happens every day and the common outcome is that the biker dies.

There has to be a better argument for sentencing bikers and scooter riders to death.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#18

Post by asaph »

hammock wrote: post #14
the_watcher wrote: post #6

I used Bird, Lime, Lyft, and Jump scooters over the weekend in LA and they were great for getting around when I'd have otherwise considered driving (over a 45 minute walk). I tried a Skip scooter again when I got back to SF, and once again, it simply could not handle a minor (for SF) hill. I don't know what the solution is, since it seems like a bad idea to power them more to handle hills given the dangers that would…

You probably got one with low battery. It's not possible to "overpower" them as you suggest because they have a governor that limits the top speed.

Even on a 100% charge, a typical e-Scooter used by Bird, Spin, etc. struggle on steep uphill climbs.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#19

Post by randyrand »

danans wrote: post #2

These e-scooters could be a really great way for many cities to decrease short-haul car dependency, but they really need to be off the sidewalks. A motor-propelled machine going 15 mph doesn't belong on the same surface as a baby stroller, a senior citizen, or a person with a disability. They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place), and their speed should be capped in areas of dense foot traff…

I've owned both a scooter and skateboard for 7 months.

I disagree, you can ride a scooter on a sidewalk safely and I need to do it from time to time. Of course, I don't prefer it. But it's pretty easy to do safely and it shouldn't bother anyone if done correctly.

The rules I follow:

1. Go much much slower.

2. Stay far away from other people and blind corners.

3. Always assume a person is about to make an erratic movement

4. Never pass closely to a person. When passing, go their walking speed + 1mph. It should be a similar speed differential to passing someone when you're walking.

5. If you have no space to pass, you need to go walking speed until space opens up.

6. if the sidewalk is too packed, just get off and walk it.

7. If you have far visibility (no blind corners, doorways, storefronts, etc) and there is no one in sight, let'er rip.

It all depends on the conditions. You should never blow by people at 15 mph. I commuted partly on 5th street in downtown Los Angeles and never had an issue, a close call, or had someone bat an eye. The goal is to blend in with other people walking.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#20

Post by Retric »

freehunter wrote: post #17
danans wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> meaning side-walk devices should go at max 10 mph. 10 mph is more than enough to injure someone on collision, especially if that person is frail. Average human walking speed is 3mph. Runners average 10mph, but a running human has a lot more control over their momentum than someone in a vehicle, because they are expending their own energy to move, rather than using an external propulsion system, and they aren't on w…

On the other hand, a 3,000lb car going 35mph is far far FAR more than enough to injure or more likely kill a human on a scooter if they're forced onto the roads. If the only argument is one of how much damage would happen in the case of a collision, bikes and scooters belong with pedestrians and not with cars. We don't need to speculate what happens when a car hits a bicyclist, it happens every day and the common out…

If scooters can’t operate on sidewalks then they should be banned from sidewalks. Saying they must have somewhere safe is fine, just build bike lanes.
Post reply on HN