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Ask HN: I have constantly fallen prey to office politics. Need Advice

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Re: Ask HN: I have constantly fallen prey to office politics. Need Advice

#11

First, I recommend you do not quit your job. No matter how frustrating it might be, it is always much easier to find a new job when you already have one. So if you decide it is best to move on, look for and accept another position before handing in your notice.

You are definitely right. I controlled myself yesterday and ended up not quitting, but that was pretty close.

Re: Ask HN: I have constantly fallen prey to office politics. Need Advice

#12

Based on your recounting of events I see four companies and you having "problems" at three of them. Working for a big tech company and the getting your side-job acquihired also raises some concerns. You write that you got a "top management position" - at how many years out of university? I am guessing less than 10 based on your summary. That also rings some alarm bells. Granted there always will be people who are dif…

I spent 5 years at the big tech company and I was respected and had good relationships over there. I am pretty sure most my co-workers would hire me if they had open positions (granted, over there my work was purely technical). During 3 of those years I was also doing my business on the side.

I started my own business because I felt like the work at the big tech company wasn't challenging enough. I could have gotten my boss to make it more challenging, but starting my own business was a conscious decision, since I would have the opportunity to learn new skills and work with different technologies.

I was 9 years out of university when I got the top management position.

Fun fact: the startup I left wants to hire me back.

Re: Ask HN: I have constantly fallen prey to office politics. Need Advice

#13
Allow me to disagree with you.

"Soon, a few key employees begun downplaying this ability of mine"

"begun searching for motives to belittle our work. Things have now gotten to a point where even my boss is refraining from defending us."

What IF... Your university have a high "pedigree" but the education and your skills are really not great?

It may surprise you.. But what if you are "average"? Or Worse.. You are smart but did not work/study hard?

Now you have 2 options:

1. Be angry and defend yourself and your actions as you are doing and use "top notch" university as a shield.

2. Consider what I am saying and search for "real" feedback.

#2 is very hard because people are so afraid to offend or loose their time discussing with someone that does not want to listen that they avoid giving feedback.

My strategy at similar situation was sit with my "enemies" and say:

"Ok, I can sense we are not getting along and may work is not to your standards. Can you really really give me feedback and tell me what I can get better?"

Now be aware.. One of my "worst" enemy rant for 40 min. talking about how I do X, Y ... etc. Mostly were his personal agenda but in the middle of that I grasp two things. And that really help me.

What I want to mean is: When people complain our become your enemy is not about YOU but it is about HOW they PERCEIVE YOU. They don't know you are a nice guy that teaches for free in a poor kids school or that your a nice neighbour that helps your senior.

They only "know" perceive you for small hours and with their glasses.

So if you adjust two or three things on your "representation" you can make leaps in positivity.

My Enemy perceived that I was not hard working despite I was the most hard worker. So Every Friday I went to his office and talked about what I did on week and my plan for the next.

In two months I was the "best employee" working the same load. Surely I did not work more but his "perception" was that I did...

You know... Humans...

PS. I really want to help you in a positive way

Re: Ask HN: I have constantly fallen prey to office politics. Need Advice

#14
post #3

> that made it clear, from the very beginning, that he didn't like me. How 'directly' was it made it clear? How is your day to day contact with him? It is also possible that misunderstandings at the start between you two can spiral out of control (even into hate). Edit: formatting and spelling

The area that I manage didn't use to exist in the company, so while I was still building the team (it was my 2nd month into the job) I invited him for a conversation and, before I began speaking, he interrupted me, asked the following question, which derived into the conversation below. - What have you done so far? - I am building the team, have already hired X people and they will begin next month. I have also mappe…

It looks to me like your hire messed up something about this guy's plans and he set out to minimize damage as fast as possible. Since he had contacts and you didn't, he won (they usually do). Look, when you start at a new place, especially as a manager but even for ICs, it's because someone high up thought they needed an extra person (or a different person). And it's quite likely not everybody agreed with them. It's not really personal (although sometimes these people are OK with the hire but had a dream of a different skillset and don't think yours matches), but it's dangerous.

In those situations you have two options -- find someone he is close to who's more positive about you that you can leverage into brokering a truce, or try to use him for information. (You can straight up ask braggarts what they would do in your place, which usually makes it obvious why they aren't in your place already, in addition to giving you future bones to throw him to keep the hostility in check)

Re: Ask HN: I have constantly fallen prey to office politics. Need Advice

#15
>that I generally like pleasing people

Wrong move buddy - this is 100% the cause of all the issues you're facing. People smell that, they kind of dislike you. BAD people smell that, they exploit your weakness to the max. There is no upside.

Work on fixing this immediately.

Re: Ask HN: I have constantly fallen prey to office politics. Need Advice

#16
When they rewrote your components was the solution better or worse?

In the 2nd position, do you know why the executive didn't like you? If you don't know, then that's the problem. Maybe you are too proud, perhaps you are too loud, perhaps you smile a lot, perhaps you don't smile a lot. It doesn't matter the reason, it could be valid or not. You need to discover why this executive doesn't like you.

If you figure out why, you can try to at least control it. Perhaps he doesn't like you, because your team was crushing it, releasing amazing stuff. Perhaps he wants credit. Sometimes giving people credit even when undeserved to get them off your back is worth it. You can ask him a question or two. Release your project and say you couldn't have done it with the amazing advice.

It would be nice not to have to play politics, but in most organizations, a lot of people are motivated by money and power. As you climb up it becomes a game of throne like environment. Ignorance to the happenings will frustrate you and be the end of you. You can either play or be destroyed. BTW, grab a book on "Nonviolent communication" best of luck.

Re: Ask HN: I have constantly fallen prey to office politics. Need Advice

#17

Allow me to disagree with you. "Soon, a few key employees begun downplaying this ability of mine" "begun searching for motives to belittle our work. Things have now gotten to a point where even my boss is refraining from defending us." What IF... Your university have a high "pedigree" but the education and your skills are really not great? It may surprise you.. But what if you are "average"? Or Worse.. You are smart…

I appreciate you trying to help me. I am sorry if I sounded arrogant in my original post, that wasn’t my intention.

That being said, I don’t think this is about me being “average” or not. I don’ even think it is possible to measure how “good” people are in a global scale. People with different skillsets are good for different positions.

My main question is whether or not I am lacking a specific skill, what that skill is and how to acquire it. Or even if I should give up on managing people and going back to being an IC.

From what I understood based on your comment, sounds like you believe I should improve my communication skills. Is this the case? Do you think just communicating more with the people I am having problems with is enough?

Re: Ask HN: I have constantly fallen prey to office politics. Need Advice

#18

When they rewrote your components was the solution better or worse? In the 2nd position, do you know why the executive didn't like you? If you don't know, then that's the problem. Maybe you are too proud, perhaps you are too loud, perhaps you smile a lot, perhaps you don't smile a lot. It doesn't matter the reason, it could be valid or not. You need to discover why this executive doesn't like you. If you figure out w…

The startup actually used two different stacks / programming languages. They would generally just port my micro-services from one stack to the other and brag about the fact that they were faster than me in writing them, which, in my opinion, really isn't a fair comparison given that porting something is a lot easier than writing from scratch (since you don't have to make decisions about architecture, etc).

On your second question, I have no idea why this executive doesn't like me. I wrote a comment on another thread on my first negative interaction with him and someone suggested that my presence somehow messes up with plans he originally had. However, I can't really think of anything.

Re: Ask HN: I have constantly fallen prey to office politics. Need Advice

#19
post #3

> that made it clear, from the very beginning, that he didn't like me. How 'directly' was it made it clear? How is your day to day contact with him? It is also possible that misunderstandings at the start between you two can spiral out of control (even into hate). Edit: formatting and spelling

The area that I manage didn't use to exist in the company, so while I was still building the team (it was my 2nd month into the job) I invited him for a conversation and, before I began speaking, he interrupted me, asked the following question, which derived into the conversation below. - What have you done so far? - I am building the team, have already hired X people and they will begin next month. I have also mappe…

Thank you for this detailed answer. On to the next stage:

> I invited him for a conversation

Why was this contact made? What's his connection to your team, ie. how important is his input to your team?

> I spoke with some people in the company I already felt like I could trust

Possible scenario: Chances are that these coworkers are also close to 'that' manager, and talked about it to other coworkers, which eventually resulting into 'that' manager heard that you talked about him. -> Source of hate?

I, myself, would do one of the following options

1. Make your sprint/monthly goals clear to the CEO and at the end deliver

2. Start looking for other opportunities. Since you were well liked in your previous positions, it may be easier to get references.

Hidden option: Look really hard at yourself. Are there unconscious behaviours of you that may cause dislike? Try to apologize to 'that' manager for tiny and unnoteworthy mistakes, he just sounds like a ... who needs more love.

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